VonHelton Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 With all the money spent on HAARP' date=' Commadore VON would not have to ask baseball teams for money to get to mars.[/quote'] You're probably right, unfortunately....... :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendo001 Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 They said the earth was flat, They were wrong. They said you cant break the speed of sound, They were wrong. As you can see humans are a resourceful species. Given enough time or the need to do something we will. And for thoughs who think i'm wrong, Tuff. Also its only a matter of time as and when we will be exploring the galaxy, and i wish it would hurry up............ P.S. remember that the human body adapts its all about time, and thats what every one should remember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eRRoRz Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Also its only a matter of time as and when we will be exploring the galaxy, and i wish it would hurry up............ Naah, we won't be alive to see it... And if they start right now, we won't... :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psheldrake1 Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 If there is oil on Mars the US would be the first to get there. Bush would cancel his wars for an increase in space funding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psheldrake1 Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 YES! I finally made LT!!!! I love this site' date=' full of big gems and good times! I'm glad I'm a member of this site! Yahoo![/quote'] So what does that have to do with the ongoing conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 If there is oil on Mars the US would be the first to get there. Bush would cancel his wars for an increase in space funding. There is oil on Mars.......Mars is at least as old as Earth is, if not older. ......Precious gems, too. But, just the asteroid field alone would keep us in the black for the rest of humanity's existance. :stare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelluh Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 .......And once we find out the sun is going supernova, it's too late. :stare: The sun IS going supernova..... we just don´t know exactly when. :stare: We don't need to. We'll die anyway, if not by Sol going supernova, it'll be by Gamma Flash. Ever heard of those? Wipe out entire galactic arms in seconds... (well.. not seconds, but you die.) Nope never heard of those.... I tried google but all i could find where measuring instruments... but i guess that´s not what you meant. I Would like to know though... maybe you have a URL with some more info on the subject :) ... appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted January 27, 2005 Author Share Posted January 27, 2005 They said the earth was flat' date=' They were wrong.[/quote'] But no educated "they" has said it since Eratosthenes calculated the earth's diameter to within 10%, about 2200 or so years ago. "They" say all sorts of stuff. Google "HAARP" and you'll read some of the craziest excrement to claim empirical backing. Actually, the answer to the survey is a matter of opinion ... but the facts only support the last two answers. And sometimes "they" want to build a starship, but confuse the magnetosphere with the atmosphere or confuse ultra-violet radiation with cosmic rays. That confusion can be cured with a little reading, a little study. What can never be cured is failing to dream of doing more than you know how to do right now, failing to desire what is currently out of reach. Von, you dare to dream of doing more. You didn't like the Enterprise intro, so you created your own. Lots of folks bitched and moaned-- You did something! Now you want interplanetary travel, but you argue for it in a way that sounds more ignorant than a retarded hound dog chasing his tail! Your ideas deserve more respect than you represent them with. If you insist on sounding like an idiot (which you clearly are not!), then nobody will take you seriously unless they're more ignorant than you sound. And that would be a pity. You owe yourself and your dreams better than that. Or maybe this is just play and you don't really care. And that would be too bad, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted January 27, 2005 Author Share Posted January 27, 2005 If there is oil on Mars the US would be the first to get there. Bush would cancel his wars for an increase in space funding. There is oil on Mars.......Mars is at least as old as Earth is, if not older. ......Precious gems, too. But, just the asteroid field alone would keep us in the black for the rest of humanity's existance. :stare: And the oil formed on mars after ancient marshes were covered with silt that slowly built up into layers nearly a mile deep and the heat and the pressure slowly cooked all that organic goo down to petroleum? B) But somebody who could figure out how to make asteroid mining profitable and get the backers to actually finance the venture ... that would be a good first step towards venturing away from Mother Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elladan Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 .......And once we find out the sun is going supernova, it's too late. :stare: The sun IS going supernova..... we just don´t know exactly when. :stare: We don't need to. We'll die anyway, if not by Sol going supernova, it'll be by Gamma Flash. Ever heard of those? Wipe out entire galactic arms in seconds... (well.. not seconds, but you die.) Nope never heard of those.... I tried google but all i could find where measuring instruments... but i guess that´s not what you meant. I Would like to know though... maybe you have a URL with some more info on the subject :) ... appreciate it. I do not know whether its the correct translation of "gammaflits"... It's dutch you know, so I'll check for the trala... GAMMA BURST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Von' date=' you dare to dream of doing more. You didn't like the Enterprise intro, so you created your own. Lots of folks bitched and moaned-- [b']You did something![/b] Now you want interplanetary travel, but you argue for it in a way that sounds more ignorant than a retarded hound dog chasing his tail! Your ideas deserve more respect than you represent them with. If you insist on sounding like an idiot (which you clearly are not!), then nobody will take you seriously unless they're more ignorant than you sound. And that would be a pity. You owe yourself and your dreams better than that. Or maybe this is just play and you don't really care. And that would be too bad, too. Your right.......My ability to express my ideas sometimes comes off as someone who belongs in a Mental Hospital. .......But that doesn't negate the fact that I know I'm right. But, for the sake of arguement, let's say the yellow-bellies are right, and once I clear the Moon I turn into a pile of "goo" on the deck plates....... Guess what? I DON'T CARE! ......At least I got off my lazy rear end & did something!! It's interesting that we use radiation suits here on Earth all the time, yet we can't use them in space......Doesn't that give you pause?? Aren't you tired of the stupid excuses for not going?? ......I certainly am! If I was given the equipment, the man-power & ships I request, I'd be turning a profit within a year! BET ON IT. I'll christen my ship the "Challenger"........Which would be accurate, since it'll be a challenge just to get it off the launch pad!! :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Oh, and another thing....... If NASA has indeed created "Anti-Radiation Shields" for the Voyager Probe, why can't this same technology be incorporated into my ship?? :stare: Well? :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elladan Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Oh, and another thing....... If NASA has indeed created "Anti-Radiation Shields" for the Voyager Probe, why can't this same technology be incorporated into my ship?? Well? 'cause you don't have a ship. I do. Will you come along?? You get experience, I get an XO. cool deal. Elladan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 This is probably not impossible' date=' and a number of potentially viable theories have been advanced (magnetic containment fields for fusion power serving double duty as a spacecraft magnetosphere, putting engines onto an asteroid and burying passengers and control systems deep within it). But in order to solve these problems, a huge amount of funding is necessary and there probably won't be enough to wage a war against phantom weapons of mass destruction [b']AND[/b] develop long-distance space travel for humans. So the 30+ years that Voyager has been flying around our Solar System, it either: a. Has protective shields. b. Not one solar flare or cosmic ray was produced. .......Right. And my momma wears combat boots. :stare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 'cause you don't have a ship. I do. Will you come along?? You get experience, I get an XO. cool deal. Elladan Kinda hard to sign up for something when the only link I have takes me to a page that says "Coming Soon!" :stare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted January 28, 2005 Author Share Posted January 28, 2005 This is probably not impossible' date=' and a number of potentially viable theories have been advanced (magnetic containment fields for fusion power serving double duty as a spacecraft magnetosphere, putting engines onto an asteroid and burying passengers and control systems deep within it). But in order to solve these problems, a huge amount of funding is necessary and there probably won't be enough to wage a war against phantom weapons of mass destruction [b']AND[/b] develop long-distance space travel for humans. So the 30+ years that Voyager has been flying around our Solar System, it either: a. Has protective shields. b. Not one solar flare or cosmic ray was produced. .......Right. And my momma wears combat boots. :stare: She does? I'll bet she can do some serious *ss kicking in a pinch! Yet another category for favorite weapons! B) Seriously, though, you need to think about Vger a little more carefully before blowing off the radiation threat. Space electronics are typically radiation hardened versions of "standard" electronics that are five to ten years behind earthbound technology. In the late 80's, the cutting edge CPU for satellites was a rad-hardened 8085, an 8-bit processor of the sort that ran CP/M. Then Harris developed a rad-hardened, space qualified 8086. But once a product has hit production, the spacecraft that carry it take another 5 to 10 years to get launched. There was also a "mil-std" CPU for space, I think it was dubbed the 1701, but it's been a while, so I don't remember. Voyager was built with 1960s technology. Large gates, even discrete transistors. No microprocessors. This is important in understanding how it could work for so long ... larger gates mean that a cosmic ray must deposit far more energy to disrupt performance. For Voyager this probably means an iron nuclei. Those are a very small percentage of cosmic radiation. Also, redundant and error checking technology allows many spacecraft to recover from single event upsets (SEUs) caused by cosmic rays. Thus, Voyager has probably survived with very few SEUs, and likely recovered from any that occurred. Voyager had no humans on board, so biological damage was not an issue. Total dose radiation and micro-meteor bombardment, however, will eventually destroy the craft's electronics. Because of the older technology and larger feature size, this will take much longer than for modern chips. Another thing to consider is that Voyager has been moving away from the sun, reducing the particle flux that bombards it from our star. At this point, the only major problem it faces is the inevitable total dose radiation damage that will eventually kill it. UV radiation, the kind that can cause skin cancer, is easy to shield against. Those who study UV have to use quartz lenses because glass will absorb most of it. UV is can be a non-issue in space, with just a little bit of care. A good coronal mass ejection (CME) from the sun can be lethal even in low earth orbits (LEO) and even more likely to kill in space. Fortunately, CMEs are like are kind of rare, and they are like a directed particle weapon. Unless you're directly in their path, they pose no threat. Voyager has minimal shielding, but has been able to withstand solar and cosmic radiation for a long time. But not forever. And not for long enough to make it to another star system. My last understanding was that radiation and micro-meteors had already caused significant damage, and Voyager engineers had found some relatively ingenious work-arounds for failed or damaged subsystems. On your starship, you'd want to ensure that cosmic radiation is well shielded against unless you get an FTL drive. A voyage of a few years to solar planets should be relatively safe with modest shielding, but interstellar travel at non-relativistic speeds would inevitably lead to severe health consequences without well designed shielding ... probably a combination of magnetic field and shielding materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elladan Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 There was also a "mil-std" CPU for space' date=' I think it was dubbed the [i']1701[/i], but it's been a while, so I don't remember. Where have I seen THAT before?? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted January 28, 2005 Author Share Posted January 28, 2005 There was also a "mil-std" CPU for space' date=' I think it was dubbed the [i']1701[/i], but it's been a while, so I don't remember. Where have I seen THAT before?? ;) Hmmm ... I know the CA license plate for it is taken ... I'm obviously misremembering the right standard, but there is a DOD-STD-1701: DOD-STD-1701 Hardware Diagnostic Test System Requirements This document establishes the general procedures, terms and conditions governing the preparation and completion of a hardware diagnostic test system. I was actually thinking of 1750 ... sigh ... a mind is a terrible thing to lose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Voyager was built with 1960s technology. Large gates' date=' even discrete transistors. No microprocessors. This is important in understanding how it could work for so long ... larger gates mean that a cosmic ray must deposit far more energy to disrupt performance. For Voyager this probably means an iron nuclei. Those are a very small percentage of cosmic radiation. Also, redundant and error checking technology allows many spacecraft to recover from single event upsets (SEUs) caused by cosmic rays. Thus, Voyager has probably survived with very few SEUs, and likely recovered from any that occurred.[/quote'] I'm a product of 1960's technology myself........1963, to be exact. You're right......The old type tubes & transisors last a long time. Old tube type radios still work today...... ......I have one. Unfortunately, one solar flare or cosmic ray (if the Yellow-Bellies are to be believed) would've melted Voyager like a hot knife through butter. .....Unless, of course, it's skin was composed of 5ft thick sheets of lead, and all major componants were made of titanium. The amount of weight involved would've prevented the 6.5G nessesary to break the Earth's gravitational field. Sorry, didn't happen........ :o So, someone is lying. Either the data on Voyager's construction is a lie, or the threat of radiation is. Second, let's take a full glass of water. Now take a bottle of red food coloring. Drop one drop into the glass of water. What happens? The red food coloring disipates, diluted by the immense (from its perspective) amount of water. :thinking: Now the Yellow-Bellies want me to believe that radiation is somehow different. Instead of being diluted by the vastness of space, they want me, you, and everyone to believe that it actually becomes more concentrated!! :o .......I'm not buying it, sorry. If you want to believe that, go right ahead. Or, even more bizaare, they want us to believe that radiation is somehow a setient being, and will deliberately seek out my ship & destroy it. :stare: Can you imagine how stupid & insulting those 2 possibilities are to me?? .......Yet, they are floated as truth!! Like I said, I'm tired of the excuses.........I want something tangable done, preferably yesterday!! There are tons of things we need to be doing right now, in preperation for the colonies on the Moon & Mars. .......And none of it is being done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 On your starship' date=' you'd want to ensure that cosmic radiation is well shielded against unless you get an FTL drive. A voyage of a few years to solar planets should be relatively safe with modest shielding, but interstellar travel at non-relativistic speeds would inevitably lead to severe health consequences without well designed shielding ... probably a combination of magnetic field and shielding materials.[/quote'] I SAY AGAIN: It's interesting that we use radiation suits here on Earth all the time, yet we can't use them in space......Doesn't that give you pause?? Aren't you tired of the stupid excuses for not going?? ......I certainly am! :stare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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