Ulysses Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 i say the next person that slags Janeway off should get slapped with a wet kipper or a mucky toliet brush lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 ^then perhaps this topic should be locked :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbb Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 ^then perhaps this topic should be locked :) I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostShadow Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 1st: Sisko 2nd: Picard 3rd: Janeway 4th: Kirk 5th: Archer I agree, janeway is not a bad captian she just dosen't give the...Power..picard Gives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meateater Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 There were some posts criticising Kate Mulgrew's acting capabilities. She was a bit stiff in the first season, but it seems like she's getting more comfortable with Janeway's character. However, it is refreshing from Avery Brooke's sometimes almost manic acting style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I don't know... leadership isn't always about raw, masculine power. I thought Kate did a good job portraying Captain Janeway for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorsmith Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Janeway. She changed her portrayals as often as she changed hairstyles. First she behaves like her crew’s mother figure, maybe even as a governess (like she’s living out her wretched gothic holonovels). Later she becomes an Ellen Ripley-style action figure, slicing macrovirus apart with a combat knife. And in one of the many time travel episodes when she is warned that her actions are threatening the universe she actually says something along the lines of “screw causality, my crew are my first priority,†which is, I suppose, a nice sentiment until you ponder that since her crew has to exist in this universe she might not want to implode it, at the very least. And yet I agree that even though her portrayals kept shifting her character never really grew past her initial design. How often in series did we witness Janeway fall back on her cardinal sin: that she alone decided to blow up the Caretaker’s array and strand her crew. No matter how many times the issue came up and was subsequently resolved by that episodes end it kept coming back. Even when confronted by a Captain Ransom of the Equinox who bucks ethics to get his crew back quicker. Even after Voyager discovers a vortex that was polluting the inhabitants of a dark matter nebula and the crew refused to let her sacrifice herself, in essence vindicating her decision to destroy the Caretaker array by them making a similar choice. Then in the final episodes of the series we are shown Admiral Janeway essentially taking it upon herself to frick with time once again, apparently because she lost so many crew. This is while ignoring all of the crew Voyager lost in those previous seven seasons. In essence she erased every trouble, trial, and even triumph we would have seen if Voyager had an eighth season or more. Surely Voyager must have done good in those years we wouldn’t see, making invaluable impressions on the destinies of entire civilizations! And she even ignores how in that one episode she briefly saw a mature Naomi Wildman as well as that one ex-Borg 7 o’ 9 adopted – so I guess she and Chakotay saw temporal ghosts in that ep. I guess even Admiral Janeway knew that seven seasons was just too much to continue. Sorry for the diatribe but I wanted to be as specific as possible. Could somebody offer specific evidence of where she was a really good captain? Without saying at least she wasn’t like captain in the ep where she was falsely portrayed as a Nazi-like figure (Season 4, Episode 23, “Living Witnessâ€ÂÂ). Oh crap, does this initiate Godwin’s Law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grillguy85 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Janeway is a horrible captain. First off, she took them through BORG SPACE. Any real captain would set a course for the gamma quadrant and go through the wormhole. It would have taken just as long, but, NO BORG. Secondly, it's no big task her getting Voyager back home. The Enterprise D got hurled to a place where space, time and thought become one, and Picard got them back in less than a day. That is why people pick on Janeway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 ^then perhaps this topic should be locked :) I agree. Why should this topic be locked? Because one poster posted something rude (for lack of a better word)? If you are refering to Elderbear's post I believe he meant the individual post and not this whole topic (BTW - HE can correct me if I'm wrong). Mod Edit: You're 100% right! Thank gawd the right people are in charge around here... c4 :thinking: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 ^then perhaps this topic should be locked :) I agree. Why should this topic be locked? Because one poster posted something rude (for lack of a better word)? If you are refering to Elderbear's post I believe he meant the individual post and not this whole topic (BTW - HE can correct me if I'm wrong). Thank gawd the right people are in charge around here... c4 :thinking: I was reffering to Neomasters comment about how the next person who slags of Janeway..... - Kind of takes the whole point of this topic away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 TFMF take a chill pill was just a bloody joke hence the lol...and whats rude about a wet kipper...I dont know where your from but from here is a fish you get at a supermarket.....chirst why do some people have to take things to serious lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 TFMF take a chill pill was just a bloody joke hence the lol...and whats rude about a wet kipper...I dont know where your from but from here is a fish you get at a supermarket.....chirst why do some people have to take things to serious lol... No it wasn't that -but i was just making a joke myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenofNine Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Janeway. She changed her portrayals as often as she changed hairstyles. The examples you're pointing out are storylines. It's difficult for Mulgrew to play it calm, cool and cerebral in an episode like "Macrocosm" (which is what yo're referring to as a Ripley-like episode, since it's the only one you can think of, likely.) If the writers put a phaser rifle in her hands and undress her, what's Mulgrew to do. But we're going to complain about that when every other captain does the same things? And that's what we're really talking about. It's a double standard. No one thinks to slag Kirk for ripping off his shirt and firing a canon at the Gorn in "Arena" do they? Why can't a female captain be an action hero on Trek? And yet I agree that even though her portrayals kept shifting her character never really grew past her initial design. You can look at that, again, as being the writers. Mulgrew doesn't write the actions and words her character portrays. Does that make Janeway bad? Not really. Janeway brought the ship home, twice (one with many crew dead, once with many still alive) 75,000 light years. Pretty good job by definition, I think. As for her changing... she did change. The destruction of the Caretaker and the crew's stranding was a result of by-the-book Janeway, the defining opening pilot character. By series' end she has threatened torture on StarFleet crew (Noah Lessing); she has used biological weaponry on an enemy (Species 8472, when she could have just gone around the conflict); she has engaged in temporal fiddling ("Endgame"). What do you want her to do to show a difference. She's meant to be upholding Federation principles under distant duress. You want her to slay without conscience and steal and maraud? Sorry for the diatribe but I wanted to be as specific as possible. Could somebody offer specific evidence of where she was a really good captain? Without saying at least she wasn’t like captain in the ep where she was falsely portrayed as a Nazi-like figure (Season 4, Episode 23, “Living Witnessâ€ÂÂ). Oh crap, does this initiate Godwin’s Law? A good captain? Are you serious? Every time the ship made it's way home after a conflict that might have destroyed it, she was a good captain. If you don't like the show and the captain, we're not going to be able to convince you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 TFMF take a chill pill was just a bloody joke hence the lol...and whats rude about a wet kipper...I dont know where your from but from here is a fish you get at a supermarket.....chirst why do some people have to take things to serious lol... No it wasn't that -but i was just making a joke myself. pmswl no worries....i just thought that you didnt see the funny side.,...sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorsmith Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 • Quote: The examples you're pointing out are storylines. Exactly. Just as how I wouldn’t judge an actual person without referring to their history. That which a character does defines her, regardless of her fictitious nature. • Quote: You can look at that, again, as being the writers. Mulgrew doesn't write the actions and words her character portrays The way I see it, a good actor can save a bad script (or at least make a bad show watchable if only for to see that actor) just as a bad actor can ruin a good script. I suppose you can say that Kate Mulgrew just didn’t “do it for me.†Which might be causing some confusion in this post. As I understood it, we were asked why we though Janeway was a bad captain, not anything about the actor. Though certainly the actor played a part (pun not intended). • Quote: A good captain? Are you serious? Every time the ship made it's way home after a conflict that might have destroyed it, she was a good captain. Hmm. That to me is like saying, “Every time Gomer Pyle didn’t accidentally frag Sarge he was a good soldier.†Here is an instance where you are using a necessity of the scripts to DEFEND her character, something you would appear to deny a person who thinks the scripts are a large part of what ruined her. If Voyager had been destroyed at any point, it would have ended the series (almost 100% certainly). Even in the last episode I would not fathom Berman and Co. deciding to “Blake 7†the crew and ship. Their survival was not merely a feat of luck or even skill, it was going to happen regardless of who was captain and who was playing that role. What I prefer to dwell on is HOW it ended, and how believable she was in pulling it off. I grade her a D minus: good hustle, bad form. • Quote: If you don't like the show and the captain, we're not going to be able to convince you. My intention was not to “convert†people to my way of thinking, and never would I hope to do so in such a contentious matter as this. Conversely I doubt even citing specific evidence of her efficacious captaincy would dissuade me in my dislike for her. Personal preferences are, after all, personal matters. I merely wished to relay my point of view in answer to c4’s topic request. I apologize if this is a mischaracterization of your behavior, as I only have written words to go on, but there seems to be a strong sense of indignity from you. Understandable, given the personal nature of the cases being stated. Because it is too easy to ruffle feathers in such a topic, I will bow out, as graciously as possible. There is no loss or gain to be had here, as the vast majority of posters will continue to believe whatever they wish to. I don’t think it could ever be doubted that was the case. Thank you for taking the time to read my entire arguement. Very appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcant Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 maybe it was the accent? but i just always felt like I was watching a not particularly good Katherine Hepburn impression Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 ^then perhaps this topic should be locked :) I agree. Why should this topic be locked? Because one poster posted something rude (for lack of a better word)? If you are refering to Elderbear's post I believe he meant the individual post and not this whole topic (BTW - HE can correct me if I'm wrong). Thank gawd the right people are in charge around here... c4 :thinking: I was reffering to Neomasters comment about how the next person who slags of Janeway..... - Kind of takes the whole point of this topic away Oh. OK. I was thinking of the post by "deathdlr1488" that was deleted by the mod. A most offensive post indeed! If you page back through this thread you can still see my reply which contains the original post. c4 B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 maybe it was the accent? but i just always felt like I was watching a not particularly good Katherine Hepburn impression I know that's it for me, subconsciously seeing Janeway as a lesser Hepburn. But I like Janeway inspite of her not living up to the other Kate. Nobody else can ever live up to Katherine Hepburn. I haven't seen a Voyager episode since it was on the air, though. Once the NiteShdw releases come out, I might have a different opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaveng Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 I thought of Aunt Bee (on the Andy Griffith Show... with Opie). It's not Janeway's fault she was handed lousy Brannan-Braga-wrriten scripts. troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorsmith Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 maybe it was the accent? but i just always felt like I was watching a not particularly good Katherine Hepburn impression I know that's it for me, subconsciously seeing Janeway as a lesser Hepburn. Kate Mulgrew has actually been doing a Hepburn show on stage called Tea at Five (you can google it for more details). I'm sure Paramount was aware of the similarites between the actresses, and I believe she was actually supposed to inact the spirit/flavor of Hepburn. Especially in the early seasons, which you can also see in some of the hairstyles they gave her. So this isn't just confusion or a coincidence, the similarities were intentionally drawn out. Unfortunately, from some of the reviews I've read she, eh, doesn't do a good Hepburn on stage, either. Ahem. Yeah. Personal edit: There were good reviews, too, as well as staunch fans. Sorry if I made it seem as if there were none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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