maverick Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 a fewthings are needed for the creation of oil, though oil has been found ceated in igneous environments. biogenic material: dead stuff, plants animals burial: under lots of water or ground anoxia: to create oil you need a no/low oxygen environment time: :rolleyes: heat: nothing else works without it. nothermal maturation a combination of this all is a sedimentary environment got those on mars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 a fewthings are needed for the creation of oil, though oil has been found ceated in igneous environments. biogenic material: dead stuff, plants animals burial: under lots of water or ground anoxia: to create oil you need a no/low oxygen environment time: :rolleyes: heat: nothing else works without it. nothermal maturation a combination of this all is a sedimentary environment got those on mars? These are the basic requirements for oil formation on Earth. Organic material could come from other sources, as comets and some of the gas giant moons have demonstrated. While these may not produce something as complex as oil, there is the potential for naturally ocurring hydrocarbon based fuels to exist extraterrestrially. If we revise your list to: 1) an organic source, 2) pressure (which is what burial provides), 3) an anaerobic environment (common once you get a few km away from the terran surface), 4) time - lots of that in the solar system, and 5) heat - may be caused by pressure or movement of magma - then complex hydrocarbons may not be impossible in the solar system. Mars, however, is only slightly more likely than Mercury to have "oil!" IOW, I basically agree with you. Anybody who thinks Mars has oil needs to read up on the formation of petrochemicals and what we think we know about Mars and its arechronology. Finding significant amounts of WATER is what scientists are hoping for. Oil? Unreasonable on Mars, only a slim possibility on the gas giants and/or their moons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 Recent Papers on Mars from H-bar Lawrence Livermore hosts a bunch of physics related papers. I think all have abstracts, and just about all have the entire body of the papers available. Many of these are pre-prints, so it's the hottest info. Dig in ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 Sorry' date=' No. It really wouldn't. Methane is CH4 so after combustion we'd still end up with CO2...which is a greenhouse gas.....of course, unless you're Bush - in that case it is not a greenhouse gas....nope....no siree![/quote'] Ah, but CO2 has about 1/20th the greenhouse effect as CH4. Burning CH4 (as opposed to releasing it into the atmosphere) would cut the greenhouse impact by 95%. So, if we could just get cows to burp into methane collectors (as an example, Australia's methane production (mostly bovine) has a greater greenhouse impact than their burning of fossil fuels!!!), we'd be better off. But fossil deposits of hydrocarbons are a non-renewable energy source. At least cows take solar energy (bound by plants) and produce a potential fuel (methane)! That's renewable ... all we need is somebody clever (VonHelton, help us out!!!) to figure out how to capture it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRenegade Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Ture methane is a potential energy source. But would you want to work there? In order to capture it you would need some sort of "plug" for the cows "butt" (don't go thinking dirty on me boys) however, that is to assume they would be outside. If they were inside, then you could just have the sir being collected and filtered to remove the methane and therfore have your energy. One renewable energy source I would like to see being used more would be ethanol. Comes from corn, burns cleaner than gas, and gets the same mileage. And if I remeber properly, doesnt cost to much more to produce compared to gas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oma Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Sorry' date=' No. It really wouldn't. Methane is CH4 so after combustion we'd still end up with CO2...which is a greenhouse gas.....of course, unless you're Bush - in that case it is not a greenhouse gas....nope....no siree![/quote'] Ah, but CO2 has about 1/20th the greenhouse effect as CH4. Burning CH4 (as opposed to releasing it into the atmosphere) would cut the greenhouse impact by 95%. So, if we could just get cows to burp into methane collectors (as an example, Australia's methane production (mostly bovine) has a greater greenhouse impact than their burning of fossil fuels!!!), we'd be better off. But fossil deposits of hydrocarbons are a non-renewable energy source. At least cows take solar energy (bound by plants) and produce a potential fuel (methane)! That's renewable ... all we need is somebody clever (VonHelton, help us out!!!) to figure out how to capture it! Oh, but if CO2 is of no concern then why was the Koyto protocol made? The problem is that whenever you combust any fossil/biological fuel down to the least energy-rich component, you end up with H2O and CO2, so CO2 levels are constantly rising - 50 years ago the CO2-% in the atmosphere was 0.03%.....Today it's 0.06% . So yes, methane is "better" greenhouse gas but quantity is not to be overlooked. What we really need is to get the CO2 out of the atmosphere - e.g. growing trees and then store them somewhere afterwards so they don't decompose. Perhaps under the sediment in the oceans...yes......only problem is it'll probably turn into oil in some 100 mio years and then some dumbass will dig it up and use it! Bugger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 At least cows take solar energy (bound by plants) and produce a potential fuel (methane)! That's renewable ... all we need is somebody clever (VonHelton' date=' help us out!!!) to figure out how to capture it![/quote'] Piece of cake. Simply insert a particle collector into the second stomach, making sure that the parts are resistant to acid. You can't put it in the cow's rectum, you'll cause infection, or cause toxins to build up in the cow. The downside is that I'm not sure how to make the aperatus portable...... :stare: Until then, their freedom of movement will be limited. Still, with the excess gas pressure taken away, the cows should be more happy. ......And a happy cow is a productive one. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Oh, I almost forgot......Particle collectors are the size of a factory or bigger, so we'll need to make a smaller version. :stare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 At least cows take solar energy (bound by plants) and produce a potential fuel (methane)! That's renewable ... all we need is somebody clever (VonHelton' date=' help us out!!!) to figure out how to capture it![/quote'] Piece of cake. Simply insert a particle collector into the second stomach, making sure that the parts are resistant to acid. You can't put it in the cow's rectum, you'll cause infection, or cause toxins to build up in the cow. The downside is that I'm not sure how to make the aperatus portable...... :stare: Until then, their freedom of movement will be limited. Still, with the excess gas pressure taken away, the cows should be more happy. ......And a happy cow is a productive one. :D cows in the uk are given some kinda drug to change the chemical composition of their farts. think of the potential :D with a bag full of corks and a lot of good salesmanship you could, over time, and with the right drugs,create jet propelled cows! B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 With a bag full of corks and a lot of good salesmanship you could' date=' over time, and with the right drugs,create jet propelled cows! B)[/quote'] Yes, but it's a waste of time if the cow doesn't achieve escape velocity. :stare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 With a bag full of corks and a lot of good salesmanship you could' date=' over time, and with the right drugs,create jet propelled cows! B)[/quote'] Yes, but it's a waste of time if the cow doesn't achieve escape velocity. :stare: ok so we do it american style. we attach two cows either side of the first one, and another underneath. once the initial cow has reached orbit it can jettison the other three. the passengers sit on the cows bck......OBVIOUSLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I can see PETA reading this thread & having a coronary! LOL! :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I can see PETA reading this thread & having a coronary! LOL! :p who is PETA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 who is PETA? PETA: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted February 12, 2005 Author Share Posted February 12, 2005 who is PETA? PETA: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. ;) I always wanted to venture into space ... wouldn't cows want to do that, too? Thus, it should be perfectly ethical if you equipped the booster cows with parachutes! :cyclops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted February 12, 2005 Author Share Posted February 12, 2005 One renewable energy source I would like to see being used more would be ethanol. Comes from corn' date=' burns cleaner than gas, and gets the same mileage. And if I remeber properly, doesnt cost to much more to produce compared to gas...[/quote'] The problem with ethanol is distillation (as well as the energy that goes into a modern farm operation). But, it ought to be possible to rig a solar still. Or, per Ernst Callenbach's Bring Back the Buffalo, windfarm the prairies. He saw a problem with line losses in getting the electricity to urban areas. Ethanol could be a solution. Windfarm + corn. Electricity from windfarm used to distill fermented corn. Ethanol driven by ethanol ethanol/vege-oil-diesel powered vehicles to urban areas. Crazier ideas have been proposed, neh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 I always wanted to venture into space ... wouldn't cows want to do that' date=' too? Thus, it should be perfectly ethical if you equipped the booster cows with parachutes! :cyclops:[/quote'] A renewable resource!! ......Yay!! :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oma Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 who is PETA? PETA: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. ;) Bummer! I thought it was People Eating Tasty Animals - no wonder they weren't interested in my squirrel-on-a-spit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psheldrake1 Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 They do have bio-deisel in canada. It's made from grease out of deep friers. That's the only reason mcdonalds, burgerking and the like should stay open. BTW if we use all the corn for fuel, what are we suppose to eat. We waste enough grains and such feeding cattle now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 They do have bio-deisel in canada. It's made from grease out of deep friers. That's the only reason mcdonalds, burgerking and the like should stay open. BTW if we use all the corn for fuel, what are we suppose to eat. We waste enough grains and such feeding cattle now. Good point! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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