SW Empire vs. Federation/Alpha Quad

[DFreed69]

I'm just having an issue with Darth Vader going up against Jean-Luk Picard. Grand Mof Tarking "Unleashing the hounds so to speak , if this is between Ep 3 and 4. ..... Nevermnd that one the shear numbers involved with the Ep. 3 That opening sequence when they went in to save Palpitine. The ST universe would never survive, contrary to any ones point of view the numbers are already there.

[philly]

If i remember right theres a number floating around like 300,000 ships in the Imperial fleet 25,000 of those are Star Destroyers, not including fighters, bombers etc, thats not counting Lord Vaders Fleet thats in the outter Rim terrorties. I think it would b pointless to argue the fact that sheer numbers doesnt mean squat. I think its possible the battle is over b4 it even begins

 

[Meel]

Voted SW, after reading that link there is not even a doubt left lol... A transport from SW could destroy half the ST fleet :)

Not even counting DV choking uncle picard :P

Meel.

[Bapman]

I don't know...

I prefer SW... and I'm pretty sure SW will win but its just SUCH a messed up fight. I mean ST relies HEAVILY on 'treknobabble'... impractical tactics and SUPER LUCK.

SW is more plausible. Even the Jedis can compared to ancient Ninjas and Samurais.

I mean let's say SW tech is lower. How low are they !? Kazon low !? or something else. 'Cause seriously... they just don't have replicators and transporters.

Other than that they have tech way WAY ahead of the ST fellows.

They got personal shields... rapid fire blasters... concussion grenades... clones and whatnot.

Their fighters can dodge energy weapons and fly through tight spaces with only paint scrapings.

Plus... the sheer number of their ships... fighters and troops is just unbelievably overwhelming.

SW ships are massive compared to FED ones and carry so much firepower that even powerful shields will fall 'cause they all have limits.

ST on the other hand can adapt their weapons and defences. Can find ways to teleport torpedoes onto the engines.

Can retreat at warp speed... which while slower than hyperdrive is faster than normal cruising... something the SW fellows can't do.

Romulans have got cloaking but then they can't fire while cloaked.

Sadly... ST phasers get overloaded or overheated SW ones don't. Turbo lasers have been seen to take out asteroids with 1 shot. Phasers can't.

SW misslies are very very powerful and rarely miss their target. ST torpedoes are equally powerful but rarely HIT their targets... unless ofcourse they are planets.

It would be a more interesting fight if they went against the SCARRANS from Farscape or the DOMINION.

[TetsuoShima]

Well, if it's in a universe where both parties can use their full capacity and only their full capacity, then ST is doomed to lose against SW. Why? Because SW has "the force" and with it the greatest advantage anybody could ever wish for. Palpatine for example could influence through the force (very easily since the ST buddies don't have any force) the fleet leaders of ST and have them make horrible tactical and strategical errors. In the last movie he was responsible for 'mind-controlling' at least over 10000 people (if you've read the books, you'll know what I mean), so he could certainly control a few douzens.

 

Which leads me futher, since the ST guys don't have any force and so probably also no midi-chlorians, it might be possible that he would have no force influence whatsoever on anything ST brings with it, so that would make him (and all other Sith) nearly powerless against ST.

 

Hmmm, now I'm confused.... :thinking:

[Bapman]

But they'd still be fast and agile like Spider-men and weild a lightsaber to cut then open like tin-cans.

Plus... SWs got the Droids.

Man just imagine them releasing those droids with the shields in Enterprise.

But...

Again... who is fighting against whom !?

The Alpha Quadrant VS Empire !?

or SW vs ST... 'cause then there's the Dominion and the Borgs.

n well... a combination of THAT is scary.

[philly]

Hell why not just go all the way, cause we have allready determined that StarFleet and the federation would b decimated, so lets move on to ST vs SW. muwahahaha

 

O the borg are gonna love asimilating Vader if they can get close enuff that is. Imagine a borg drone with Jedi/Sith abilities, but then they will use that to enslave the entire galaxy....ow my head hurts just thinking about it

 

[Arktis]

This is simple. The Empire encompasses an entire galaxy. The Alpha quadrant is just a quarter of a galaxy. And of course, the Empire's ships are just way more powerful. And yes, they have deflector shields.

[Tenebrae]

To be fair - the Executor vs. any Star Trek ship = a lot of dead trekkies.

[Bapman]

But honestly... I think if the entire ST galaxy goes against the SW galaxy.

Then SW will get owned... quite badly.

I mean you got the KRENIMS... BORGS... VOTHS... DOMINION.

Even counting out species 8472 the SW peple will get OWNED !!!

But ofcourse if it just Alpha Quadrant... or the entire Quadrants without the superraces mentioned above.

Then ST is owned... lotsa mommy crying sissies.

[GhostShadow]

sorry i have been away for a bit, but it seems to have gotten under way. i dont think that an out come of this war would not occure through fist fights, or numbers.

 

I have one more question.. who is attacking whom? is SW attacking alpha quad, or vis versia? this matters b/c defendeing armys are usually stronger b/c the supply lines are shorts, they know the space, and reinforcements are not far behind, as opped to attackig where you have long supply lines, fighting in alian space, and could take days to reinforce the troops.

 

but in any case i think it would be the Alpha quad the one who sing their victory tunes. I think it is quality, not quantity.

 

 

[Bapman]

Exactly... and Alpha Quad soldiers are neither high in quality... and nor are their ships high in number.

Plus weak or not... SW ships DO have shields... which means teleporting photon torp into an engine is unlikely.

Plus a romulan warbird n a Galaxy class hitting those fighters in Eps 3 are also very unlikely.

Sadly... the Star Destroyer type ships giving enormous weapon barrage on ST ships isn't unlikely.

Plus look at the amount of firepower that is needed to take down a star destroyer class ship and look how much needed to take down a warbird... or vor'cha or a galaxy class. Empire ships can be torn into half and still fight... while u destroy the warp nacelle of ANY ST ship and it explodes.

[philly]

Yea not to mention that the numbers From SW are so staggering it would make you pee your pants. Could you imagine a few million Lite, Medium, Heavy Cruisers, Troop Transports, around 25,000 Star Destroyers.

 

Per Star Destroyer:

72 TIE Fighters x 25,000 = 1,800,000 Tie Fighters

12 T/I x 25,000 = 300,000 Tie Interceptors

12 T/B x 25,000 = 300,000 Tie Bombers

20 AT-ATs x 25,000 = 500,000 AT-ATs

30 AT-ST x 25,000 = 750,000 AT-STs

9,700 Storm Trooper soldiers x 25,000 = 242,500,000 Storm Troopers

 

And thats only counting the SD's not including the SSD and scores of other ships....overwhealming to think about it

[Bapman]

H O L Y... S H I T !!! :stare:

I think I'm gonna pee in my pants. :cyclops:

DAIMN that's a lotta troops and they are just the Stardestroyers. :o

[zstukov]

Well this is my first post in a while; Usually I just read the forums but anyway; on this subject I just had to post something

 

I think the Empire would dominate over all the Alpha Quadrant species and the Federation.  I'm a huge Star Trek fan but from my observations from the Star Trek TV series' and movie and the Star Wars movies I have to say the Empire would win.

 

1. The Empire has a huge fleet of tens of thousands of ships and the man power of basically an entire Galaxy, the Federation only has a few thousand star ships and the man power of its member worlds and allies in the Alpha Quadrant.

 

2.  The Empire has hyperdrive technology which allows them to move across an entire Galaxy in just hours or days; the Alpha Quadrant species have warp drive and using Voyager as an example it take years to get across the Galaxy.

 

3.  The Federation doesn't have a World Destroyer or any other kind of super weapon the only known species that does is Species 8472 (as seen in ST:VOY); the empire has the Death Star after a few planets are destroyed I image the Federation would surrender to prevent any more planets from being destroyed.  On top of the Death Star the Empire (using the books and comic books), have several other super weapons; the Executor Class Super Star Destroyer, the Sovereign Class Super Star Destroyer; and the Eclipse Super Star Destroyer (there are other but these are the well known super star destroyers).

 

4.  Imperial Weapons on Star Destroyers are designed to take down even the most powerful shield (like Planetary shields) could easily take out a Federation Startup; even a Borg Vessel would have a hard time taking on a single Star Destroyer.  To show how powerful Star Destroyer turbolasers are in reference to the Empire Strikes back when Darth Vaders Fleet is searching for the Millennium Falcon in the asteroid field we observe a Star Destroyer completely vaporizing entire asteroids, phasers can barely break apart an asteroid yet alone vaporize one.  Even if starfleet weapons were equal to the fire power of a star destroyer turbolaser with how many turbolasers that are on just a single star destroyer would over power a federation starship and then the numbers of the Imperial Navy would overwhelm the Federation Starfleet and their allies.

 

5.  When it comes down to planetary assault the Empire will win every single time.  Millions of troops come with there fleet and they have a very impressive ground assault war machine; ATAT's ATST's Atmospheric bombers; In the Star Trek series and movies we see very little weaponry to fight this kind of battle; assuming that the Federation did possess weaponry that could counter ATAT's still the numbers of the Imperial Army would over come the Federation the average Cardassian garrison during the Dominion War was only around 500,000 for an entire star system; assuming the average Federation garrison is about the same; and using the numbers from a previous post the number of troops in the Imperial Army with the fleet could be in the millions.

 

6.  The main disadvantage that the Empire has is the lack of transporter technology which is could be a huge advantage for the Federation.

 

7.  The resources of a galaxy versus a divided one, think about it.  After the Federation and the other Alpha quadrant species are conquered, the Empire could easily move on to conquer the Dominion, the move on to the Delta Quadrant to fight the Borg, Empire would still have enough troops and ships to fight both at the same time if they wanted.

 

8.  Problem with this debate; the two Sciences are completely different so it is really hard to compare but based on the observations from Star Trek and Star Wars I would conclude that the Empire would win against all the Star Trek species.  With both just superior numbers and tech.  If you put them on a level playing field with just tech the numbers would completely overwhelm the Star Trek specie's but still would be a good fight.

[Bapman]

Hmmm... interesting and thorough post.

I completely forgot about the Ground Assault vehicles the Empire has.

and finally... someone has mentioned the asteroid clearing scene from EMPIRE STRIKES BACK.

What else... oh I read that the Dominion deployed around 80 Million Jem'Hadar troops in Cardassia... plus aren't we underestimating the BORGs n the Dominion !?

Dominion would come up with virus weapons... and BORGs would adapt to the Imperials turbo lasers.

Plus... BORGs do have godly weapons that enables them to destroy an area of 5 light year radius PLUS... they can assimilate the imperial troops... they have the nanoprobe warheads to assimilate a planet within days.

Lastly... they also have transwarp that'll let them go anywhere in the current galaxy.

The Jem'Hadar soldiers... though might not appear more efficient due to bad choregraphy are more effcient than Storm Troopers and as good as the Clone Troops. Plus they have the shrowd ability... can go through standard forcefields and shields. Plus their Phased Polaron Beams go through standard deflector shields which the Empire uses.

 

In the end... I still don't understand why people say SW tech is different from ST tehc. I said it myself but I just though about it and they really aren't that different.

We have clear ways to judge how powerful their weapons are... how fast they fire... how much damage they do.

I guess the problem starts when you realise the Empire weapons are far more powerful and effective than the ST ones. Most trekkies can't accept that.

[mcant]

Any military force that has a stun setting on their weapons is gonna lose. Totally wrong mindset for galactic domination

 

The Federation will still be prepping a diplomatic party while their planet blows up

 

Anyway if tribbles develop space travel they''ll own both of them :p

[Tenebrae]

I remember that the Executor had a RIDICULOUS number of people on it - it was something like a million. Although reading the Wiki entry, it seems that it could be anywhere between 250,000 to 2.5 million and it certainly carried thousands of fighters, bombers, support ships, AT-ATs it even had prefabricated bases onboard!

 

Ah tribbles - Star Trek's answer to the death star.

[philly]

Heh, i'm pretty if the alpha quad beams over a few hundred tribbles over to ne SW ship it will confuse the hell outta them

 

Admiral Senn "My lord the fleet is ready to get underway however we have a slight problem...."

Darth Vader "What is it Admiral.."

Admiral Senn "Its those damn Tribbles their clogging everything up"

Darth Vader "Tribbles don't concern me Admiral I want that Quadrant"

Admiral Senn "As you wish my lord...."

 

Darth Vader "Do not fail me Admiral" (makes choking gesture)

[Tenebrae]

Palpatine + tribbles = BBQ fun for the whole crew!

 

Of course, the real question is - why were the clone troopers exponentially better than the storm troopers, beyond the obvious necessity of the good guys to win?