Arktis Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 I was very drawn in by this episode. I was particularly affected by the ending. If you have not seen it, do not read this thread any further, because it will most likely contain spoilers. I would really like to talk about this episode. More specificly, what does the ending mean? In my opinion, it was a very bold statement about the possible nature of reality. Here is what I think it says: What we dream, what we believe in, our hopes, our truths, will ultimately define our reality. You can interpret this in a lot of different ways. Thoughts? I await them eagerly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetsuoShima Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 exactly what episode are you talking about, because afaik nothing so deep happens at the end of ep 14. Are you talking about ep 13, Far Beyond the Stars, maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted November 15, 2005 Author Share Posted November 15, 2005 Ah yes, that's it. My mistake. Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philly Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Yea i just finished watching it again too. I will need time to think about it, it was a lot to take in and my mind is growing very tired so i will sleep on it and post in the morning/afternoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philly Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Wait i just thought about something. What if we exist on two different plains of existance and dont even realize it. IE When your awake your in one reality and the things you do in that time reflect on the other reality. When you sleep you delve into the other reality not really realizing it, and the actions or thoughts that you had when you were awake affect your actions on the other plain of existance. But you have thourough knowledge of one existance but not of another. The obvious reaction is you goto sleep and your mind "quietens" and your body replenishes energy. But what if its not so, what if when you sleep your not really sleeping but in an alternate reality. Ugh i h8 talkin about this stuff @ 5 in the morning, my mind is so intrigued but yet so exhausted...and im not sure any of this is making any sense. Things like ep 13 is it makes you reflect on reality, whats real and what isn't, or what could be, ugh psycobabble confuses the hell out of me sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetsuoShima Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Wait i just thought about something. What if we exist on two different plains of existance and dont even realize it. IE When your awake your in one reality and the things you do in that time reflect on the other reality. When you sleep you delve into the other reality not really realizing it, and the actions or thoughts that you had when you were awake affect your actions on the other plain of existance. But you have thourough knowledge of one existance but not of another. The obvious reaction is you goto sleep and your mind "quietens" and your body replenishes energy. But what if its not so, what if when you sleep your not really sleeping but in an alternate reality. Well, mentally at least, it can be argued that this is exactly what happens. Physically, I wouldn't bet on it... :) Anyway: Depending on how far you want to take it, you could say that what you believe, is the truth, even if somebody else doesn't believe it, you could argue that he just has a different truth. But both could be equally true (in the eyes of the respective believers) even if they are mutually exclusive. That's the funny thing about realities and beliefs. :) About the ep inspecific: I don't quite understand what the episode did in there, since it really has nothing to do with StarTrek, it was just Sisko ego-tripping! I did like the episode, but it's not the kind of thing I would want to happen every few weeks in StarTrek. You can imagine anything about the cause of the 'visions' btw, the most plausible might be that things he had taken up during the last few eeks triggered something is his sub-consciousness and it made him 'have' the 'visions', to help him decide what it really was he wanted, even though he allready knew, he just didn't know yet that he allready knew... ;) Him actually having been spiritually at a different location is bit to far-fetched imo, he was simply mentally turned inside himself. And the way people percieve things depends very much on their mental state. But that's just they way I explained it to myself, any other explanation might be just as valid to it's creator as this one is to me even if they can't both be true, we still both can be correct, since this would then be an imaginary arguement. :) Wow, that was deep! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 My personal opinion is - they needed to break up the war arc, bingo filler episode ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 My personal opinion is - they needed to break up the war arc' date=' bingo filler episode ;)[/quote'] hmm...indeed - but wasn't this brought back again in the episode Afterimage in Season 7? or am i talking crap I'm sure this was similar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetsuoShima Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Afterimage was the episode where Garak is decoding Cardassian messages and Ezri has problems with who she is... Where are the events of "Far Beyond the Stars" brought back again in that episode? Been a while since I saw it, but I can't remember them being recalled in that ep... Or did you mean that that was also a filler ep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 No - sorry - i meant the episode before it - where Sisko goes to Bajor and that desert and has that weird Orb experience - i was wondering if what he experienced was similar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetsuoShima Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Well, they explain that as the pah-wraiths giving Sisko bad/false visions to stop him from opening the Orb. You think it might have been the pah-wraiths that gave him the visions of the past too? Could be... Would be a nice StarTrek solution to the problem without all the writers/real life stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Well' date=' they explain that as the pah-wraiths giving Sisko bad/false visions to stop him from opening the Orb. You think it might have been the pah-wraiths that gave him the visions of the past too? Could be... Would be a nice StarTrek solution to the problem without all the writers/real life stuff.[/quote'] yeah - it's just like the 2 seemed linked somehow - how the Pah Wraiths tricked him into believing everything was just his imagination and in Far Beyond the Stars - he was shown a similar world that could mean everything he has known could have been just a dream....i just thought they were similar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howiepoohs Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 From what I can remeber of the episode and what was said about it it, it was basically a stab a rascism. From what I understand, the actor who played Cisco was a great believer in equal rights (quite right too) and wanted to make this episode as a point. I think he even directed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted November 15, 2005 Author Share Posted November 15, 2005 Are you sure? I think that episode came straight from a book. I really wish I could discuss this right now, but I've got stuff to attend to. I'll get back to this when I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philly Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 It was both, it was a stab at racism prior to the civil rights movement in the U.S, and how one mans dream couldnt be fulfilled because of the hate and prejudice. Kinda ironic that it was DuKaut and Weyoon who were the police beating up Sisko.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Are you sure? I think that episode came straight from a book. I really wish I could discuss this right now' date=' but I've got stuff to attend to. I'll get back to this when I can.[/quote'] Well i'll reply now anyway - It was on a book i think but Sisko still based the episode on the book and i think it did make a point and was well done by the whole production team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
favian Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 i've always had the perseption life is one big holodeck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted November 16, 2005 Author Share Posted November 16, 2005 Well, there are a few ways to look at reality. 1.) Beliefs impact interpretation of external reality. 2.) Beliefs create and alter external reality. 2a.) There is nothing outside the mind. 2b.) External reality does exist but as a projection by whatever the mind is. Either way, beliefs are key. What we believe in, is what we see, becuase either our beliefs filter the information we absorb, or beliefs create it. Either we are the innacurate interpreters of an absolute truth, or we are the truth itself. Or perhaps you can replace "we" with "I" or "It". Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodean Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 It was both' date=' it was a stab at racism prior to the civil rights movement in the U.S, and how one mans dream couldnt be fulfilled because of the hate and prejudice. Kinda ironic that it was DuKaut and Weyoon who were the police beating up Sisko....[/quote'] That message was very clear. BUT I think the episode is also about science fiction itself. There was of course the nod to the old school sci-fi mags like Galaxy. But more than that the episode shows why science fiction has a place in our society, Because in dreaming about a better future, we are indeed drawing attention to the issues of the here and now. Science fiction has always been as much about morality, about the present as it is about space. The fact that DuKaut and Weyoon were the ones beating up on Benny I think was quite deliberate. DuKaut and Weyoon in the Star Trek universe are not simply wacky looking villains - rather they stand as metaphors for oppression, and the fact that even in a fantasticly improved future, some 400 years hence... the vigil against oppression and tyranny is no less important than it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodean Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 Oh... and that episode is seriously the BEST EVER in the whole history of star trek. I think I'll be showing it to my gf, so she can see just why it is that science fiction is important to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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