Arktis Posted November 16, 2005 Author Share Posted November 16, 2005 I think the episode is also about science fiction itself. There was of course the nod to the old school sci-fi mags like Galaxy. But more than that the episode shows why science fiction has a place in our society, Because in dreaming about a better future, we are indeed drawing attention to the issues of the here and now. Science fiction has always been as much about morality, about the present as it is about space. The fact that DuKaut and Weyoon were the ones beating up on Benny I think was quite deliberate. DuKaut and Weyoon in the Star Trek universe are not simply wacky looking villains - rather they stand as metaphors for oppression, and the fact that even in a fantasticly improved future, some 400 years hence... the vigil against oppression and tyranny is no less important than it is now. I agree 100%. Check out the book, it's only $6.50. Sometimes Star Trek thoroughly fails, though. Take 619 For example. I was infuriated by this one! Humans have this odd flaw that causes them to condone and perpetrate the most horrible evils when they are threatened. This is particularly an issue in this day and age. But the writers of 619 just didn't explore the issue at all except to seem to say that it was okay. Oh MAN was I mad when I finished that episode! By the way, anyone know what the episode title "In the Pale Moonlight" is in reference to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howiepoohs Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 I have a vauge recolection of something to do with "Who dances with the Devil In the Pale Moonlight?" Cant remember where that comes from tho, but is fitting to the ep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted November 16, 2005 Author Share Posted November 16, 2005 Please tell me it's not a reference to this... "Have you ever danced with the devil by the pale moonlight?" I was hoping this was actually in reference to something a bit deeper or historicaly significant, instead of just something the Joker once said to Batman in a movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 Please tell me it's not a reference to this... "Have you ever danced with the devil by the pale moonlight?" I was hoping this was actually in reference to something a bit deeper or historicaly significant, instead of just something the Joker once said to Batman in a movie. It's not a matter of where it came from but what it means and it sounds good and is relevent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted November 16, 2005 Author Share Posted November 16, 2005 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Pale_Moonlight_(DS9_episode) The title of the episode refers to a quote from the Batman movie: "Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?" Dangit. http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/In_the_Pale_Moonlight The working title of this episode was Patriot THAT would have been more relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 hmm - perhaps - but the only reason you don't like the title of that episode is cause it's from Batman - it's a good title and many episodes have has this similar kind of title that is more of a saying really - wrongs darker than the light.....nor the battle strong.....so this really fits better with DS9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodean Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 I though that it was a great episode too. I'm surprised Avery Brooks hasn't been snatched up by hollywood already. What a champion bloody actor. I agree though, the ethics and morality of that episode run COMPLETELY against the grain of the sort of values star trek has innocculated me with. BUT I can see what the writers were trying to challenge. And there are indeed times when neccessity sits unwell with morality. It's certainly a fine line to walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 ***Warning! Spoilers for season 7!*** Aha! Benny shows up again in 702, when Sisko finds the Orb of the Emissary. Could these be flashbacks to real events in the past? Could Benny Russel really be a tool of the prophets; is he creating these things from his mind or is he just transcribing them from the prophets? I knew there was more to this thing than just a simple one episode filler! I may just have to end up getting that book. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Yes it would have been Benny Russel - i knew i was right! but i beleive it was just a false vision from the Pah Wraiths trying to stop Sisko from opening the orb from what i remember... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 Oh, it's starting to look like that... still watching 702... yup. A false vision. Oh man... this stuff about Sisko's birth... that's messed up. Wow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostShadow Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 This sounds like an transcendentalist question, lol. It kinda makes you think, but I try to stay away from questions that try to explain existance, b/c there is no definition. "I think, there for I am" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 .......well ok..... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted December 12, 2005 Author Share Posted December 12, 2005 I just watched 613 again, and then 702. When Sisko's mother tells him that the Pah Wraiths tried to trick him with a false vision, it seems she was only reffering to what happened when he discovers the orb of the Emmissary. Since she isn't specific, it seems that it's left up to the viewer to decide. That's frustrating. I suppose I am just going to have to check out that book to really figure this all out. I would hate to think that the events in 613 were all just one big elaborate hoax by the false prophets. That's no good; it trivializes the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Well the prophets do really go for the wider view really. They don't think of it as the pah wraiths tried to stop him from opening the orb - but rather tried to stop him from forcing the pah wraiths out of the wormhole or somthing like that but we can assume that they were reffering to the vision of Benny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 I was afraid you were going to say that. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bapman Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Please tell me it's not a reference to this... "Have you ever danced with the devil by the pale moonlight?" I was hoping this was actually in reference to something a bit deeper or historicaly significant, instead of just something the Joker once said to Batman in a movie. Sooo wht's wrong with having something as homage to wht JOKER said. It's still cool... the line sounds cool... n its interesting tht they used it this way. Creative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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