GhostShadow Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 ok, I know that a lot of ppl do not agree that Nemesis was a good movie, I just want to know why... I liked it b/c As i have mentioned in another Thread, I thought that it was good b/c it opened up a new life for Star Trek in my opinion. The Books have taken advantage of this, i know that there are very very few ppl on this site that read the books, but i am more than positive that if you did, then you would see what i see. For Example, the TITAN series starts off and continues onto the second book all beacuse the Nemesis movie, and the defeat of Shinzon. Nemesis opened up a new relation ship between the Federation and the Romulan Empire. Ok the is where the "cannon" part of ST ends.... But i hate how ppl only watch ST and comment on "good Ideas" or "bad ones" when the TV series is only a very small fraction of the ST universe. In the books the autiors expand on this relation ship and form it into what i think could be a great new movie or series that can be launched off from Nemesis... Now that i have stated WHAT Nemesis opened up, not all of it but i will keep it breif, I want to say inmho why it was good. There was Development between the Charachters, I.E. Captian Picard had a HUGE epiphany about his life... There was a Rise and Fall in the Story line, I.E. , ENT came to Romulas under the assumtion that Romulans where looking for peace. Now it later turned out that Romulas was not looking for peace but one of the 'former government projects' was looking for revenge... And Third, but most definetly not the last, there was action... If you dont consider a fight between a Warship that had a very succssesful history in the Dominion war and The Flag Ship of the United Federation of Planets along with 2 NEW ROMULAN WAR BIRDS ,(i cant remember the calss..begins with an 'L' though..), action then I dont know what is... So if you could plz tell me what you think could have been better i would like to know-- b/c i am lost at why ppl dislike it, i liked it more than First Contact... imho, Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macnbc Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 The general complaint levied at Nemesis is that it boldly goes where we've all been before.. about 8 movies ago. The plot is so much like Wrath of Khan sometimes that they could've just put Shatner and Ricardo Montalban in some scenes and it'd work. Hell, you even had the science officer commit suicide to save the crew. The 'epiphany' that Picard has mirrors the 'epiphany' that Kirk has in WOK. People also dislike the whole plotline with B-4 and how Lore is never even mentioned. Yes it had a rise and fall of the story, every movie does. Good and bad movies do. Whoopdidoo. I don't think anybody criticized the action, the action was fun. But explosions and crashes do not a good film make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostShadow Posted December 31, 2005 Author Share Posted December 31, 2005 Yeah, sorry guys the Site was being slow and my internet was being slow and i probly hit the post button twice, lol. SO i deleted the other thread not realizing that THAT one had more post, i am sorry. so if ya want to re-post, that would be great, and i am sorry agian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostShadow Posted December 31, 2005 Author Share Posted December 31, 2005 Which is why I love Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country. Not only did it have a plot that had never been done before- it was helping to found the foundations at peace between the Federation and Klingon Empires. It covered four separate Starships, Three Planets - and really wasn't over laden with Battles and Conflict. It wasn't all about Chang, and really kept moving in different directions and kept your mind occupied in a really gripping plot. Nothing since has compared to the complexity of Star Trek VI. It's also a fitting end to the original Trek crew. ok this was said in the ST movie scoop thread, an di just wanted to put that this too is why i liked Nemesis... It covered the happinings on two ships... not on the same side, but what was happening on the 'villian ship' as wel. Nemesis DID have a lot of battels but not overly crownded with them. It did have a large battel at the end tough. as much as people might dis-agree, Nemesis was not all about Picard but also about the struggle with Data and B-4 also. along with the struggle of trust between the Romulans and the Federation. So Nemeis might not match Generations in magnitude but it did have most to all of the same elements that where explained. Nemesis was actualy needed, b/c Brent Spiner wanted to Retire and the needed to kill him off and the rest of the crew was getting wore down and i think that this was the best way to do it. I know that Patrick Stewart said in an interview that Nemesis would behis last Movie so i am glad that they did it the way that they did. All be it that a few minior details could have been changed to apeal to more, i think it was all in all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renonevada Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 That whole dune buggy scene bugged me. It was completely against what the characters would have done in the series. I wonder how many starfleet rules they broke with that alone. Plus B4 doesn't fit because they say in the series that Lore and Data were the only ones whatever his name created, the others never came close to working properly. Data's death didn't do anything other than have him die. It was pointless to me, and the end mourning scene felt overly contrived and fakey. None of my friends or myself thought it was emotional at all. They did Tasha's death loads better. Pretty much the first bit sucked but it did start getting better with Shinzon and the ending was horrid. But the special effects were the best of any Star Trek movie. That's why I want them to make another Next Gen movie because they're not bank rolling any shows right now they can pump a big budget into this and make it real good. Sci fi is finally coming into its own because of CG and this could breeath new life into the fandom that it desperatly needs. Believe me, I know. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renonevada Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 "I know that Patrick Stewart said in an interview that Nemesis would behis last Movie so i am glad that they did it the way that they did." Actually he changed that opinion. Just heard he'd be willing to do one more Star Trek movie if Brian Singer was involved. ;) I guess he had too much fun doing X-Men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostShadow Posted December 31, 2005 Author Share Posted December 31, 2005 That whole dune buggy scene bugged me. It was completely against what the characters would have done in the series. I wonder how many starfleet rules they broke with that alone. Plus B4 doesn't fit because they say in the series that Lore and Data were the only ones whatever his name created, the others never came close to working properly. Data's death didn't do anything other than have him die. It was pointless to me, and the end mourning scene felt overly contrived and fakey. None of my friends or myself thought it was emotional at all. They did Tasha's death loads better. Pretty much the first bit sucked but it did start getting better with Shinzon and the ending was horrid. But the special effects were the best of any Star Trek movie. That's why I want them to make another Next Gen movie because they're not bank rolling any shows right now they can pump a big budget into this and make it real good. Sci fi is finally coming into its own because of CG and this could breeath new life into the fandom that it desperatly needs. Believe me, I know. ;) I agree that a new TNG movie would be cool, but a lot of the actors have decided to take off the comm badge, they have done it for around 20 years, they are getting tired. and the Romulans made B-4. They found him and Shinzon said that they found him not working and that it took a while to get him up and goining, so yeah you right that Lore and DATA where the only working ones MADE BY Doctor Noonien Soong. And i did like Tasha yars Funeral but i also liked Datas too... and the whole point of killing off data was TO kill him off.. Brent Spiner didnt want to play him any more, i heard it was b/c it was to physicaly demanding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Episode review: The Beginning - we zoom in to Romulan space - a great scene with music that compliments it well. Next were in the Romulan Senete or whatever having a debate/political discussion - whatever - and then we meet Senetor Telora and she does that thing with the Thaleron generator and yet another great scene of all the Senetor and the Preator dying. This basically sets us up for the Movie. Then we have the wedding - which i will just skip :cyclops: After that we have the banter on the bridge - Picard, Riker and Worf talking about not wanting to be Naked - it's always good to add humour :). And then we have the Argo scene - now this was great - this was Star Trek spreading it's wings so to say - i hardly see how they were breaking the rules renonevada - and i mean the crew have to have some fun, right? :D and i thought how they made finding the peices of B4 sorta spooky and scary created a great atmosphere for that scenes. And the battle was great too - the enemy vehicals chasing the Argo fiering at them - it was all so cool. And yes - from seeing that you may not think it was Star Trek but again - it brought somthing new to the franshise and will probably be remembered as one of the great scenes of Nemesis. Next the Enterprise arives at Romulus and we are shown the magnificant Reman Warbird - the Scimetar! as captain Picard said - "she's a preditor" and she certainly was! And then we have all this dialoge and emotions between Picard and Shinzon - there was nothing boring about this - in fact it was quite interesting to see them discussing there pasts - we learn quite a few things about Picards past and it cool seeing Shinzon in the those dylithium mines on Remus... Then we have the battle inside the Scimetar where Picard has to escape with Data - this is another great section of the movie and has loads of suspence and is really cool when we have them in the Scorpion flying through the ship. I will skip to the Big Battle - Enterprise E Vs. Scimetar - WOW!!! this is simply a great battle - great effects and all that although i will admit the bit with Riker and that Reman fighting was a bit bad...but everything else about it was great. I think it was a shame Data had to die but they made it a really sad moment when they all greived for him later... Another thing to note was the music they had was great as it played throughout the film - i find this with ST Eps as well and really added to the effect of the movie. Well anyway...that's my opinions - a great movie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabrood Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Well, it just lacks something. It is kind of hollow like the "Tomb Raider" movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Enigma Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Nemesis is one of my favorite Star Trek movies. The plot wasn't original,but I still enjoyed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 I don't hate Nemesis. I just think that the movie is too Picard/Shinzon (the clone :rolleyes:) centered. It kind of makes you lose the big picture. Maybe something more focused on the Romulan/Federation peace talks, instead of specific characters, would have worked better. That's why I like the Titan novels. They offer many insights on Romulan and Federation affairs that are neglected in the film. I also think that Nemesis missed a great opportunity to bring back Spock to the big screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayjay21 Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 i thought it was one of the best star trek films ever done and well worth the wait and i really think the next one should be about the uss titan and the romulans that would be a good film Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostShadow Posted January 1, 2006 Author Share Posted January 1, 2006 I don't hate Nemesis. I just think that the movie is too Picard/Shinzon (the clone :rolleyes:) centered. It kind of makes you lose the big picture. Maybe something more focused on the Romulan/Federation peace talks' date=' instead of specific characters, would have worked better. That's why I like the Titan novels. They offer many insights on Romulan and Federation affairs that are neglected in the film. I also think that Nemesis missed a great opportunity to bring back Spock to the big screen.[/quote'] yeah, I liked how the Novels took advantage of that. Although i thoght that TITAN: Red King was a littel... off beat, i didnt think that the charachters would act that way, especialy Donatra. But i dont understand, since the books took advantage, couldnt the TV series or another Movie do it too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mav Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 It was alright, nothing to write home about it. It was slightly better than Generations. Sad though, while Insurrection wasn't much more than a beefed up two-part episode, it was still superior to Nemesis and Generations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiggy Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 It would appear my post has gone missing so I will tell you why people hate Nemesis....... Because it was marketed as a Gnerations Final Journey.........ie supposed to bring closer to TNG. It did nothing of the sort and I was conned out of a cinema ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 For me - it was just such a non-event. It's a film which might have action and such but doesn't "flow". There are several disperate elements that seem to sit unhappily together and a few scenes that are incongrous. For example - you have the wedding, the pointless dune buggy set piece, seemingly hours of Picard waffling, a really lame bad guy that can just get the job done... I could go on. For a swan song, it was pretty weak. It lacked the excitement of First Contact and the gentle banalness of Insurrection. In essence, it was like spending time with an elderly relative - you'd feel bad if you didn't but you can't wait until its over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 I'm not saying it was the best ST Movie - i mean First Contact was amazing but i wouldn't say that Nemesis was 'boring'. And i think to say you were 'conned out of a cinema ticket' is really unfair - i mwan you must have really hated the film for that but i can't see how it's so bad. Because it was marketed as a Gnerations Final Journey.........ie supposed to bring closer to TNG. It did nothing of the sort and I was conned out of a cinema ticket. It may be the end of a Generation - but that dosn't mean it has to end with them all dying or all retiring - it's about moving on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 People didn't like it - you did, why dwell on the fact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angree Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 IMO nemesis was the best movie out of TNG movies, but not because it was good. It was because other TNG movies were worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 IMO nemesis was the best movie out of TNG movies' date=' but not because it was good. It was because other TNG movies were worse.[/quote'] OMG - are we gonna have to create these topics for the other movies as well... ? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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