elderbear Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 How global warming can lead to an ice age I've run across info on the fresh water dilution of the North Atlantic before, but not with the notion that it could return us to an ice age environment. Start building those warp drives folks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 "The whole global climate suddenly flips into a cool, dry phase that can last for many centuries before warmer conditions return: there have been two such episodes, at 12,500 years ago and 8,500 years ago, even since the end of the last Ice Age. Or the cool, dry phase could last for a hundred thousand years if other conditions, like the shape of the earth's orbit and the tilt of its axis, have already put us on the brink of a new Ice Age." .......It's hard being humble. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 hey boys, hows things? have i been wafflin too much? the N Atlantic dilution occurs as a result of melting ice. the diagram i have posted is motivaed by ice. colder water is denser water and so it sinks, its saline properties also make it dense. it sinks to the bottom of the ocean and moves southwards (the same thing occurs in the southern ocean) this motivates a conveyor belt system likt the one i have posted. the gulf stream can be seen separately but is part of this system too. the gulf stream stores energy from the lower latitudes and travels northwards transporting and releasing heat on its journey. this is why eastern us and western europe and uk have the current wet climate. if the global thermohaline conveyor were to stop transport of heat in water would stop. this leads to ice, ice, ice. cos it gets cold.the thermohaline circulation is a very necessary part of our climate system. without it youd better stock up on electric socks :thinking:. there is quite a bit of science in all that which i missed out to makea point and some of it is quite interesting. i dont know how curious you boys are, but i just started a palaeoclimate change module in my degree. i can post bits that may interest you if you like. unless you see what im doing as condescending then i wont. it;d be good to discuss this stuff with other people. hope you like the pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quosego Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 So we're doomed, i really think we should move away from here... to a nice little planet that doesn't plan on getting incredibly cold. I must agree build those warp drives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 So we're doomed, i really think we should move away from here... to a nice little planet that doesn't plan on getting incredibly cold. I must agree build those warp drives. Before Kim Jong Ill blows us up, or before we freeze to death? :stare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted February 12, 2005 Author Share Posted February 12, 2005 i dont know how curious you boys are, but i just started a palaeoclimate change module in my degree. i can post bits that may interest you if you like. hope you like the pic Loved the pic, but can't seem to separate it from the PHP code to snag it. Can you point me to a URL online? Please post interesting snippets of paleoclimate change and any discussion or ranting you feel need to go with them. I'm always interested and won't feel condescended to, even if you have to type R E A L L Y S L O W L Y for me to read it! B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted February 12, 2005 Author Share Posted February 12, 2005 Professor Mike Schlesinger' date=' of the University of Illinois, reported that the shutdown of the Gulf Stream, once seen as a 'low probability event', was now 45 per cent likely this century, and 70 per cent probable by 2200. If it comes sooner rather than later it will be catastrophic for Britain and northern Europe, giving us a climate like Labrador (which shares our latitude) even as the rest of the world heats up: if it comes later it could be beneficial, moderating the worst of the warming.[/quote'] Gulf Stream Shutdown The original article I posted looked at paleoclimatologic records to predict what might happen with global warming. I don't know if I completely agree - but I'm not well enough informed to do more than speculate. The warming trends between recent ice ages may have had more to do with solar output and the solar system transitting galactic dust clouds than with changes in atmospheric composition. If this were the case, then a shutdown of the Gulf Stream would probably NOT lead to a global ice age, just a restructuring of climate. Shutting down the Gulf Stream means that heat transport from the equator doesn't make it to polar regions. The Atlantic North would get colder and the equatorial region would retain more heat, generating more hurricanes and severe storms. Much of the other effects would depend on what the jet stream did. Thus, Atlantic equatoria ought to get warmer than expected, and the northern Atlantic regions ought to get much colder. This would cause the ice-cap to expand, increasing (slightly) earth's albedo. But the reflected heat would still be trapped by greenhouse gasses. It seems more likely to me that we'd end up with a more stratified climate, far more violent hurricanes, and less arable farmland. Europe would pay a severe penalty. Depending on how the jet stream responded, so might the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 i dont know how curious you boys are, but i just started a palaeoclimate change module in my degree. i can post bits that may interest you if you like. hope you like the pic Loved the pic, but can't seem to separate it from the PHP code to snag it. Can you point me to a URL online? Please post interesting snippets of paleoclimate change and any discussion or ranting you feel need to go with them. I'm always interested and won't feel condescended to, even if you have to type R E A L L Y S L O W L Y for me to read it! B) hey elderbear here is your link. http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/32.htm there are plenty more out there but this im informed is an accurate one and the website reputable too. i dont think i'll need to type that slowly man you know what ur talkin about. there is some easy chemistry that you may be aware of that you could read up on which could make data more accessible. try isotope stratigraphy and isotopic fractionation (work of harold urey and cesare emiliani), rayliegh distillation, this will give you the basics to understand sciency bits if you are not already aware. laters dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psheldrake1 Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 So we're doomed, i really think we should move away from here... to a nice little planet that doesn't plan on getting incredibly cold. I must agree build those warp drives. Before Kim Jong Ill blows us up, or before we freeze to death? :stare: More like if Bush doesn't get us all blown up. His policies are that cause of most problems. He has the power to change the planet. Instead he's off fighting a useless war. May the gods have mercy on him, because I surely don't. Why didn't he sign the koyoto accord, because it wasn't in his friends best interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 More like if Bush doesn't get us all blown up. His policies are that cause of most problems. He has the power to change the planet. Instead he's off fighting a useless war. May the gods have mercy on him' date=' because I surely don't. Why didn't he sign the koyoto accord, because it wasn't in his friends best interest.[/quote'] Bush may get us killed, but not the way you think. ......The Middle East Peace Process that Kommerade Klinton set up between the so-called "Pallistinians" & Israel. From the "How quickly we forget" Dept: There is no such thing as a "Pallistinian".......The land was under British rule during WW1 & WW2. The Muslims who lived there were nomads......Wandering tent-dwellers some say may be the Beduins that told Moses where to find the "Promised Land". ....How's that for irony? The very people who want to take the land away from the Jews were the ones who told them how to get there in the first place!! :stare: War on Terrorism?? The PLO was founded as the largest terrorist organization in the Middle East. Their goal was to exterminate every Jewish man, woman & child they could, and they did so all during the 60's & 70's. ........The same PLO that now claims it is not a terrorist organization! And Bill Clinton fell for it, hook, line & sinker. As the saying goes........"Those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it". ......Sorry, Bush was nowhere around. :o Land for Peace? One of the underlying goals of the PLO was to "Push the Jews into the Sea". This has not changed. They conned Bill Clinton into giving them the Golan Heights......The high ground. ......Ask any military man what the advantages of having the high ground are in war. As I type this, the PLO is working with Egypt to get at least half of Jerusalem. If the USA agrees, which they probably will. .......Of course, this will eventually lead to war. Possibly even the mythical "Armageddon" spoken of in the Bible. :stare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psheldrake1 Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Von I can say for one thing you are wrong. If you're going to quote from books, at least make a good one. The only reasons the US is involved with the middle east is politics. They don't like the idea of having a free society. Peace through superior fire power, that's Bushs' idea of peace. Being democratic does not meen a peacefull existance. I know when the dust stops falling, I'll still have a job. People will always need to eat. Look to the future and base you're education on it. It'll be hard to pay for anything without power. Learn to shoot with a bow & arrow. Learn to fight with a knife. That's where Bush is leading us to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Go to a library. Get a copy of "TIME" or "LIFE" from the 1970's. ......Read it. Then come back & we'll talk. :thinking: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psheldrake1 Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Propaganda papers. There usefull in the woods when you run out of toilet paper. Besides that I wouldn't read them. I read real books. Science mostly a few others. Magazines never. Besides, I have the biggest library now, THE INTERNET. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRenegade Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Well call me blind, or naive, or whatever you want but I don't think the world is going to drown by the ice caps melting (doesn't water take up MORE room frozen than it does liquid?) and I don't think the world is going to hit a deepfreeze like The Day After Tomorrow True if the whole temperature of the world goes up 10 degrees there will be famine, and drought, and well death and stuff. So that is what we must stop. Cut back on greenhouse gases, and maybe we should try to stop wasting much food and water. But we should also try to invent cleaner energy source. Like Fusion, Hydrogen, and what not. Rather than dump money into trying to clean up "dirty" industries, maybe we should try to get "clean" industries going and making money. You need to spend money to make money.. One last thing, I don't know if any of you guys like paying more than 2 bucks a gallon (80 cents a liter in Canada thats almost 3 bucks a gallon.) But the sooner we can develop clean and renewable energy source, the sooner we can say to the Middle East "You screwed us when we need cheap energy, and made us pay through the ass for oil and gas. So now that we have better energy source. You can go FUCK YOURSELF!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 BMW has cars that... Run on water Emit water vapor at the tailpipe Fill automatically with robots Use hydrogen made from sunlight ...and they have been at it for over 30 years! http://www.bmwworld.com/hydrogen/ :stare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 http://www.fuellesspower.com/water2.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 if i wanna post a pdf document on the site how doi go about it? i cant cite this reference inhtml cos it a little big,or make a link cos its an a passworded site. hmmmm... lemme know i can post an interesting paper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 if i wanna post a pdf document on the site how doi go about it? i cant cite this reference inhtml cos it a little big,or make a link cos its an a passworded site. hmmmm... lemme know i can post an interesting paper Put it up as an attachment, I guess? :stare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Propaganda papers. There usefull in the woods when you run out of toilet paper. Besides that I wouldn't read them. I read real books. Science mostly a few others. Magazines never. Besides, I have the biggest library now, THE INTERNET. "TIME" & "LIFE" are not propaganda papers......In fact, they're just the opposite. They don't give opinions, they just post the information or news as it happens. (Maybe that has changed by now.......I'm not sure) :stare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 if i wanna post a pdf document on the site how doi go about it? i cant cite this reference inhtml cos it a little big,or make a link cos its an a passworded site. hmmmm... lemme know i can post an interesting paper Put it up as an attachment, I guess? :stare: what if the attachment is 40 pages long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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