VonHelton Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 what if the attachment is 40 pages long? Hmmmmm...... Don't think anyone will be too keen on downloading that over & over! :o Put it up on your website & give us a link to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted February 20, 2005 Author Share Posted February 20, 2005 I have been reading papers from the recent British conference on "Avoiding Dangerous Climate Change." On Monday, I'll post them as a torrent for those interested - they're in PDF format, I've got 1) conference conclusions, 2) presentor papers (some of which are PPT slides), and 3) poster sessions. About 70 MB worth. One of the papers (I think by Woods) looks at THC (thermo-haline cirulation), and models what happens if the north atlantic shuts down. During ice ages (which a great deal of current scientific thought believes were causes by a combination of a) changes in solar radiation & b) precession of the earth's axis), this was a component in global cooling. According to Woods, however, in a GHG modified climate, this would only cause cooling for Europe and eastern North America, while leaving the rest of the world even HOTTER! Perhaps a localized "ice age" while everybody else sweats to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted February 20, 2005 Author Share Posted February 20, 2005 if i wanna post a pdf document on the site how doi go about it? i cant cite this reference inhtml cos it a little big,or make a link cos its an a passworded site. hmmmm... lemme know i can post an interesting paper As a torrent?!? That should work quite well, methinks. Nite, how about a torrent category for science. That's where the encyclopedias, BBC Space voyages, papers, etc. could be listed on the tracker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Nite' date=' how about a torrent category for science. That's where the encyclopedias, BBC Space voyages, papers, etc. could be listed on the tracker.[/quote'] I second that....... NOVA, BBC, ect needs their own category. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0g Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 "TIME" & "LIFE" are not propaganda papers......In fact' date=' they're just the opposite. They don't give opinions, they just post the information or news as it happens.[/quote'] TIME (1923) and LIFE (1936) Were Both started by Henry Luce, a Staunch Conservative and avid supporter of the Republican Party. Luce has been accused many times of using his magazines to promote his Right wing agenda, particularly in the Americas. His propaganda efforts are credited with leading to the violent overthrow of the popular leftist president of Guatemala Jacobo Arbenz. . Luce maintained Editorial control until his death in 1967. So any Report from either magazine prior to that is suspect at best. Time magazine uses the phrase "targeted eliminations," to refer to assassinations of civilian Palestinians by Israel Black Ops teams. This is unarguably a propagandist phrase, and reflects their right wing pro Zionist agenda. Neither country had any real existence before UN Resolution 181 (II) of 1947. A year later Israel invaded Palestine, and has occupied about 77% of their territory illegally in violation of international law ever since. Anything else is propaganda from one side or the other. -=c0g=- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I think this settles the arguement quite nicely........ http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html Oh, and for the record, all of our colleges used to be controlled by churches, yet no one thoght they were "Zionist"...... :stare: :stare: :stare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0g Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I think this settles the arguement quite nicely........ http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html I'm sorry, but I couldn't bring myself to read past the part of your "history" that states: "sharing was not part of the Arab psychological makeup then nor now." Your link is nothing but a revisionist history that is vulgar and racist, not to mention totally ungrounded in fact. No wonder you are a bit confused if this is the caliber of "journalism" you use to form your worldview. -=c0g=- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Your link is nothing but a revisionist history that is vulgar and racist' date=' not to mention totally ungrounded in fact.[/quote'] Revisionist history?? My god man, haven't you ever heard of Rommel's "Afrika Korps"?? .......Or were they "revisionist" as well? Please try to temper your hatred for the Jews long enough to see the truth.......K? :stare: :stare: :stare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0g Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Please try to temper your hatred for the Jews long enough to see the truth.......K? I have no hatred for anything but stupidity and willful ignorance, VonHelton. You should know that buy now after our repeated conflicts. As far as Zionism, I'm actually pro Shivath Tzion as far as movements like kibbush ha'avoda, and others of socialist Zionists such as Ber Borochov are concerned. I think that a Jewish homeland is a good idea. I think that a return to working the land is always a good idea for any people. That’s why I’m a farmer. I just think that Israel has no right to brutally occupy and oppress its neighbors. This is not Anti-Semitism; it’s Anti-imperial-militarism. I have read histories written by both sides, and formed my own opinions that have nothing to do with race or creed, but instead have been influenced by my own morality and idealism. ----------------------------------------- I also think that this has nothing to do with global warming. My apologies to those of you who were having a nice and interesting discussion about what the near future of Gaia may be. On that note: How much of a part do you think equatorial plant density will affect drastic shifts? Will rapid plant die-off accelerate climate change, or will large plant populations act as a mitigating cushion to delay drastic change? -=c0g=- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted February 21, 2005 Author Share Posted February 21, 2005 "TIME" & "LIFE" are not propaganda papers......In fact' date=' they're just the opposite. They don't give opinions, they just post the information or news as it happens.[/quote'] TIME (1923) and LIFE (1936) Were Both started by Henry Luce, a Staunch Conservative and avid supporter of the Republican Party. Luce has been accused many times of using his magazines to promote his Right wing agenda, particularly in the Americas. His propaganda efforts are credited with leading to the violent overthrow of the popular leftist president of Guatemala Jacobo Arbenz. The overthrow of Arbenz was much more complicated than just Luce - but it was a DARK chapter in American history. The book, Bitter Fruit, is the incredible story of this profit driven overthrow of a fledgling democracy to uphold the profits of United Fruit. For example, Arbenz decided that to help fight poverty, untilled land would be made available to landless peasants. The government would reimburse the landowners at the declared value for property tax values. The catch? United Fruit had set their own declared value for their lands, which was a gross underestimate. Even so, only theirunused lands would go to landless peasants. This led to a CIA backed coup and 30+ years of caudillo tyranny in Guatemala. I wish I could say "That's not the American way" ... but our behavior over the last century would contradict me. It isn't the American Way, and in the words of Langston Hughes "let America be America again" ... but it's an America that has only existed in the minds of idealogues and fantasy. Still, it's better to dream, to work for that dream, than to surrender to cynical inaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted February 21, 2005 Author Share Posted February 21, 2005 How much of a part do you think equatorial plant density will affect drastic shifts? Will rapid plant die-off accelerate climate change' date=' or will large plant populations act as a mitigating cushion to delay drastic change?[/quote'] I don't think that question can be answered. Climate and weather patterns are too non-linear and chaotic to be very certain. Rising CO2 levels should help reduce the risk of forrest & brush fires somewhat. It will also improve plant growth rates where sufficient sunlight, nutrients, and the proper climate are available. Both of those will reduce CO2 accumulation in the atmosphere. Good things. But climate changes and circulation changes will lead to precipitation changes. Undoubtedly, some areas that support lots of vegetation will dry out, providing less of a CO2 sink. Conversely, other areas may blossom and sink more CO2. The February (?) Scientific American had a short piece on how rainforrest destruction is essentially a one-way street. Slash-and-burn farming leads to savannah formation and localized climate change. This will reduce the CO2 sinking capacity of tropical rain forrests permanetnly. There is also some indication that for a number of plant species, climate change may proceed faster than they can extend their ranges towards polewards, causing die-off on the tropical sides without corresponding regrowth on the poleward margins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0g Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I agree that the forests may not be able to shift with a moving green belt, but Plankton accounts for about 50% of the carbon dioxide that plants remove from the atmosphere each year. Luckily for us Plankton is highly mobile, and may swell in numbers due to global warming enough to compensate for land bound plant loss. The main catch is that Plankton gets its main supply of nutrients from deep ocean cold-water updrafts. Maybe our topsoil and chemical fertilizer runoff from Agribusiness will actually be helpful here? Too bad we are not fighting a war on Global Warming... -=c0g=- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0g Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 The overthrow of Arbenz was much more complicated than just Luce - but it was a DARK chapter in American history. Sorry about my oversimplification of the situation. I was just trying to illustrate a well known example of TIME's less than impartial journalism without getting into a "Latin Socialist Land Reform" vs. "US Imperial Monroe Doctrine" side debate. Although Latin American history, and the adverse economic conditions that lead to slash and burn agriculture do have a lot to do with global warming, this probably isn't the thread for it. *sigh* I really do try to stay on topic... -=c0g=- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted February 21, 2005 Author Share Posted February 21, 2005 The overthrow of Arbenz was much more complicated than just Luce - but it was a DARK chapter in American history. Sorry about my oversimplification of the situation. I was just trying to illustrate a well known example of TIME's less than impartial journalism without getting into a "Latin Socialist Land Reform" vs. "US Imperial Monroe Doctrine" side debate. Although Latin American history, and the adverse economic conditions that lead to slash and burn agriculture do have a lot to do with global warming, this probably isn't the thread for it. *sigh* I really do try to stay on topic... -=c0g=- And you do a great job of it, too! B) And no, I don't think you oversimplified ... I just took a twist in the trail. I met Steven Schlesinger, one of the co-authors of Bitter Fruit some years ago. We had a very nice dinner together. But Luce was complicit in selling a very un-American activity to America. (An evil thing in my book.) He's a part of that story too. So, to tie back into Trek and climate change: I'd love to see a series or a movie exploring the transition from Corporate Kleptocracy providing bread and circuses to citizens who fiddle while their climate burns and unsustainable economic imperialism + the export of pollution threatens their future -> the Trek universe, especially as we see it in Broken Bow, where humans have now worked together, stabilized the planet, and are ready to go visit other star systems. That's the challenge! How do we get from here to there; not just technically, but socially, psychologically, and politically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0g Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 That's the challenge! How do we get from here to there; not just technically' date=' but socially, psychologically, and politically?[/quote'] For my self, my answer is two fold: 1) To try to educate others and myself about the problem. 2) To try live in a way that improves the situation. I grow most of my own food through sustainable farming and for the rest I try to acquire food produced locally, and organically with fair labor. I do not eat food out of season that has to be shipped halfway around the world from a chemical farm that didn't pay its workers. I do my best to apply those same principles to most other things I buy. For the world to change however, I think it may take something much more violent to alter the status quo. Thanks to a successful birth last night, my farm just acquired 3 new dairy goats, two of which are does. I'd be quite happy to post more farm pix if anyone is actually interested. -=c0g=- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psheldrake1 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Excellent cog. A true spirit of the land & a inspiration for the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I try to acquire food produced locally' date=' and organically with fair labor. I do not eat food out of season that has to be shipped halfway around the world from a chemical farm that didn't pay its workers. [/quote'] The trick will be applying those principals to the Colony on Mars....... ......It won't be easy. :stare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremeskiing Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I dont know about all of you, but im rooting for an Ice Age. Lets hear it for the 12 month ski season, no longer will I be unemployed from may to november!! LETS GO ICE AGE!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I dont know about all of you, but im rooting for an Ice Age. Lets hear it for the 12 month ski season, no longer will I be unemployed from may to november!! LETS GO ICE AGE!!!! I don't know........The concept of "Frozen Klingon on a stick" just doesn't sound appealing to me. :stare: :stare: :stare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 what if the attachment is 40 pages long? Hmmmmm...... Don't think anyone will be too keen on downloading that over & over! :o Put it up on your website & give us a link to it. errr.... i aint got a website. it was one of the articles from my course elder bear expressed an interest in. the article is a good one though. dont worry bout the length 10 of those pages are refs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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