Janeway and promotions

[bbbb]

I noticed one thing that permeated VOY, and that was the lack of promotions. Oh yes they promoted Tuvok to Lt.Cmdr but that can be said to be merely a repromotion considering Tuvok had the rank in season 1 to begin with. It had been noted that some Lt.Cmdrs are referred mistakenly as Lt. Take STVI for example, Valeris was a Lt.Cmdr but was always referred to as Lt. Geordi's friend and mentor in "Identity Crisis" was reportedly adressed as a Lt, despite her being the same rank as Geordi, a Lt.Cmdr.

 

Tuvok aside, have you noticed how no one else was promoted at all in the long seven year run of VOY? I wonder why she didn't promote anyone. Harry Kim was near the top of his class when he left the academy which was why he got the nice job on Voyager but Janeway never promoted him. Torres was never promoted, Paris was never promoted (he was repromoted but that was after losing his rank), the Doctor was never given an actual rank despite his being a de facto member of Starfleet by the time Voyager got home. Even Chakotay was never promoted, he remained a mere Lt.Cmdr for the full 7 years. It would have been hard for him to get his own ship after his service with Janeway.

 

Tuvok was promoted, but that was a long time coming. If he served with Janeway before, why did she wait so long to promote him? Did she have a problem with promoting people? Picard never had a problem giving promotions, just look at Worf, Geordi and Deanna Troi. Even Sisko didn't have a problem promoting people, consider Jadzia, Bashir of all people and Ezri.

 

I think the reason Janeway didn't give any promotions was because she was uncomfortable with her officers attaining higher ranks even though they still held the same positions. Kim spent way too much time as an Ensign. He may have made a couple of mistakes but that was rather late in the series. It is true Kirk never handed out any promotions but that is explained by the fact that there were no Lieutenant Junior grade rank back then. There was only Lt and no half Lt.

 

I would be interested in knowing what you think about Janeway not promoting people. Does anybody know why she didn't promote people?

[MrDad]

Perhaps she felt she lacked the authority to do so. As far as the situation they all faced, lack of promotion was the least. There would have been little upward mobility as most positions would become vacant only due to attrition. After 7 years, virtually the whole crew would have been promoted to commander's rank.

[TFMF]

Well i think with Voyager - it didn't really matter. Tuvok was already demoted to Lt. for his actions in Prime Factors - so he was only really re-promoted there...

[Hilander72]

Wasn't Chakotay a Commander? How could Janeway promote anyone to the same rank as she herself was?

 

One problem would also be that if they made it back to Earth in 50 years instead of 7 years, she may have considered the possibily to promote staff to higher ranks based on the need. And the ship only needs 1 Captain 1 or 2 Commanders, a couple of Lt. Commanders and so on. It might been overkill to have an admiral (Janeway promotes herself) 3 Captains, 8 Commanders, 20 Lt.Commanders and so on after 20 years or so...

[queenhank]

Yeah, it's kinda hard to maintain a chain of command with a crew full of Commanders.

[Tenebrae]

Promotions aren't really that common in Star Trek, at least it never seemed so.

 

Let's see - Geordi gets promoted hilariously quickly. Starting off as a junior grade lt and managing to get chief of engineering pretty quick (and of course being a captain in Timeless). Worf gets upto Commander, Kira gets to Col... Sisko gets to Captain... and I suppose you could consider Riker becomes captain given the implications of Nemesis.

 

So - Geordi, Worf, Kira, Sisko - get what, a promotion each? It seems like a lot when you put it like that but if - as is the implication - a lot of the crew are career officers, it must be a bit of a kick in the teeth but it's a necessity of keeping them together.

 

In the case of Voyager, Hilander is right - essentially, if you're a single ship promotion is impractical because you've got finite positions and really what's the point of having a captain to do ops?

 

I do remember the actor for Harry Kim bemoaning his lack of promotion though, he said something along the lines of: "I've been split in two, killed, sent to alternate dimensions, killed the entire crew of voyager and struck out with more aliens than Kirk and I'm still an ensign."

 

On a related trivia note - during a strike the producers offered Wesley a deal where he'd come back as an LT but he turned them down on the basis that promotion wouldn't pay the rent.

[Mav]

 

I do remember the actor for Harry Kim bemoaning his lack of promotion though, he said something along the lines of: "I've been split in two, killed, sent to alternate dimensions, killed the entire crew of voyager and struck out with more aliens than Kirk and I'm still an ensign."

 

On a related trivia note - during a strike the producers offered Wesley a deal where he'd come back as an LT but he turned them down on the basis that promotion wouldn't pay the rent.

 

Despite what Harry went through, 7 years seems like an eternity to be suck as Ensign. I mean come on, Tom gets demoted and then later promoted again from Ensign to Lt. Yet there goes Harry trudging along...

 

And lol @ Wheaton denying the promotion. Given how they just wrote him off until they brought him back to, write him off again forever with the Traveler, I doubt a few handfuls of episodes by then would have really paid him much. The only real people to make money off TNG by the end were Picard, Data and probably Riker. The rest more than likely had a salary within the range of each other (though I'm sure Michael Dorn got a pay raise by agreeing to move over to DS9 for the last few seasons).

[Guest c4evap]

I believe you are forgetting Lt. Paris. He came aboard as a "civilian observer" (fresh out of prison) but was made a Lt. by Janeway. That's a promotion...no?

 

c4 B)

[Mav]

I believe you are forgetting Lt. Paris. He came aboard as a "civilian observer" (fresh out of prison) but was made a Lt. by Janeway. That's a promotion...no?

 

c4 B)

 

True. But if my memory of early VOY serves me, Paris did graduate the academy and make it to Lt. until he washed out of Starfleet and wound up in prison at some point. Granted it is a promotion going from just a civie to a Lt but afaik Janeway just reinstated him at his previously held rank.

 

Obviously he earned it over time, one of the best pilots in the Federation (and Delta quadrant) but still, look at poor Harry. A frakking ex-con walks onto the ship, takes the helm and makes Lt. Harry spends 7 years (over 8.5 if you count all the stuff like Year of Hell and other time-travel inconsistancies) as an engisn and never even was considered.

 

Neelix was even promoted for god sakes o_O it was a small promotion obviously, from Ships Cook to Ships Cook and Chief Moral Officer but hey, its still a bump up the proverbial ladder. Harry just, kept being Harry. They coulda given him something else ya know like, make him a Riker/Kirk character who always wins over the alien princesses but never makes rank. At least he'd have being a ladys man to chalk up too ;o

[mateya]

out of 150 people on voy, they cant all be lieutenants, captains and all sorts of high ranking officers.

army command structure is piramid in shape and there just wasnt enough people to have the promotions we were used in tng,ds9... if I remember right harry actualy mentiones that to his mother in the last season, when she bugs him about it.

[Tenebrae]

I can actually see them if the HG Wells had actually stopped dicking around and policed temporal continuity, preventing the events of End Game with Harry Kim making it back to Earth, Pushing 60 and still an ensign.

[Mav]

ok, i'll give you the fact Voyagers crew compliment was small, with little room for advancement. But Harry was on the senior staff. While it's common for more experienced ensigns to be on the senior staff, you think after the better part of a frakking decade, they could let one ensign slide up just on measely rank.

 

face it harry was the red shirt of VOY sadly :(

[Tenebrae]

I forgot Nog. He spent about a week as an Ensign and then he's an LT.

 

Really, you'd think that they'd have evolved a better command structure by the 24th century. As Colm Meaney points out, during DS9 - he'll have to salute Nog before too long and he's been a chief petty officer for AGES, he's a career officer with decades of experience in engineering AND combat. I'd have thought they'd come up with some way to better recognise his experience.

[thefirstdude]

You left out waaaaaaaaayyy too many promotions, mate.

 

In TNG: Geordi from Lt. Jr. Grade to Lt. Cmdr; Worf from Lt. Jr. Grade to Lt., and then in First Contact (I think) to Lt. Cmdr; Wesley from civilian to Acting Ensign to Ensign; and Deanna from Lt. Cmdr to Cmdr.

 

In DS9: Sisko from Cmdr to Captain; Dr. Bashir from Lt. Jr. Grade to Lt.; Jadzia from Lt. to Lt. Cmdr; and Kira from Major to Colonel (and then to Cmdr).

 

In VOY: Tuvok from Lt. Cmdr to Lt. to Lt. Cmdr; Paris from civilian observer to Lt. Jr. Grade to Lt.

 

In ENT and TOS: Only Admiral Forrest gets promoted from Commodore. T'pol gets transferred from Vulcan sub-cmdr to Cmdr, I don't think this counts as a promotion.

[weareborg]

In VOY: Tuvok from Lt. Cmdr to Lt. to Lt. Cmdr; Paris from civilian observer to Lt. Jr. Grade to Lt.

 

And remember with Paris it was Civilian observerto Lt JG, to Lt, to Ensign, and back to Lt again.

[netshark]

They surely had a lack of medals and decoration in the deltaquadrant, so Janeway had to be stingy. ;)

But it's really curious, because in the future episodes they all do have ranks on top - so it was just because they were isolated somehow.

[TFMF]

Janeway also gave out loads of provisional ranks to all of the Maquis crew...

[queenhank]

he's a career officer with decades of experience in engineering AND combat.

 

Well, to be accurate, O'Brian was never an officer. He's an enlisted man, and as such is technically below the rank of ensign (but I'd like to see Nog try to make him salute).

[MrDad]

I forgot Nog. He spent about a week as an Ensign and then he's an LT.

 

Really, you'd think that they'd have evolved a better command structure by the 24th century. As Colm Meaney points out, during DS9 - he'll have to salute Nog before too long and he's been a chief petty officer for AGES, he's a career officer with decades of experience in engineering AND combat. I'd have thought they'd come up with some way to better recognise his experience.

NCOs form the backbone of most Western military organizations, which Starfleet's organizational structure is modeled after. Typically NCOs serve as administrative personnel, as advisors to the officer corps, and as both supervisors of, and advocates for, the lower-ranking enlisted personnel. Many of them often serve as NCOs for the majority of their career. The knowledge and experience they accumulate makes them vital components of their respective services. O'Brien as a career NCO would have been the rule rather than the exception.

[Guest c4evap]

I believe you are forgetting Lt. Paris. He came aboard as a "civilian observer" (fresh out of prison) but was made a Lt. by Janeway. That's a promotion...no?

 

c4 B)

 

True. But if my memory of early VOY serves me, Paris did graduate the academy and make it to Lt. until he washed out of Starfleet and wound up in prison at some point. Granted it is a promotion going from just a civie to a Lt but afaik Janeway just reinstated him at his previously held rank.

 

True enough.

 

Neelix was even promoted for god sakes o_O it was a small promotion obviously' date=' from Ships Cook to Ships Cook and Chief Moral Officer but hey, its still a bump up the proverbial ladder.[/quote']

 

Actually, Janeway didn't promote Nelix to Chief Moral Officer...he came up with that on his own.

 

c4 B)