Why dont they just ram ships into enemy vessels at warp speed?

[Nightmare]

I was thinking about the episode where the jem hadar destroyed that galaxy class ship by ramming it

Then I started thinking if that was the damage they did at impulse then what is stopping a ship - any ship - from attacking an enemy at warp speed.

 

Then I thought about Wolf 359 - most of the ships knew the fight was hopeless and they were about to be destroyed - why not just ram your ship into the borg at warp - surely that would do massive damage?

 

Or say an enemy species wanted to attack earth - im sure it is possible to simply ram a ship into a planet. That would be plausable - no?

 

Then I thought why use a ship - why not make a torpedo that travels at warp speed?

 

What are your thoughts?

[quosego]

Damn, if you take into account the massive gravimetric distortions needed for warp speed, it would totally desintegrate a cube or any planet. According to the warp speed is possible thread you need distortions almost as big as an black hole, that would most defenitely destroy an planet, let alone a cube...

 

But i'm not much off an warp physiscyst so I could be wrong.... :)

[MrDad]

Suicide is an act of desperation. Also, a photon torpedo is a matter-antimatter bomb with a warp drive. It's just a matter of scale.

[queenhank]

A Klingon Bird of Prey can go to warp inside an atmosphere.

 

If they rammed at warp, their ships would be destroyed. I don't think they were quite that desparate yet at 359. Now, the battle of Sector 001, on the other hand...Worf was about to start a new trend, I bet.

[Tenebrae]

Why smash a ship into a planet? Why not slap a warp drive on an asteroid?

 

The real issue is of course, you probably WANT that planet

 

Photon torpedoes are kind of weak for what they are. They also seem to have toned down warp core explosions.

 

I never got why they didn't just fire anti-matter at ships... although quite how shields interact with matter has always been kind of ambigious...

 

Ramming at warp... yeah, that could work but a part of me is thinking "they're in subspace". Still, when they're jumping to Warp - sure. I don't imagine it would be pretty... but then space combat in Trek has always been wanting.

[queenhank]

I never got why they didn't just fire anti-matter at ships

 

The moment an anti-matter particle comes in contact with an equal particle of matter, there is an explosion. That would be very bad if, say, there were a stray bit of space dust in front of the anti-matter cannon.

[razorlock]

The moment an anti-matter particle comes in contact with an equal particle of matter, there is an explosion. That would be very bad if, say, there were a stray bit of space dust in front of the anti-matter cannon.

 

Some sort of astro-maid would be in order, then.

[queenhank]

Sorry, that's Space Balls, not Star Trek.

[Guest c4evap]

Why dont they just ram ships into enemy vessels at warp speed?

 

It would hurt a whole lot?

 

c4 :p

[Wazer]

There is one thing that would stop a ship that's deflector shields ( or rather redirect the ship).

So if someone started going Kamakazi on an enemy they would most likely upgrade their deflectors and damage could be greatly reduced. the other problem is that if you try an ram someone you are most likely to be destroyed or easily evaded as they can move in 3 dimensions not just 2 like naval ships.

All adds up to pretty suicidal method of attack with a low chance of success.

Having said that in Nemesis it was a good tactic as the Reman ship was stationary so evasion was harder and they were not expecting it.

[Mav]

Warp speed would crumble entire planets with ease. If you remember that one TNG episode where the scientists are creating the gravometric wave thing, which would push a ship "into" Warp without the need for a Warp core or engines, the wave got so fast (like past warp 8) if it had hit the destination planet lets just say the planet wouldn't be there at all.

 

Now imagine a starship at maximum warp, ramming something with guns blazing and everything else. A Cube wouldn't withstand that.

[Tenebrae]

Yeah, I did think about that big ol warp wave, that would be a pretty great weapon... although it would be tricky to manage it.

[ceedj]

Ramming enemy vessels would never work.

 

Enemy WESSELS on the other hand are a whole different story. :)

[theaveng]

Photon torpedoes work on the "warp speed projectile" principle. Unfortunately Star Trek has never truly represented the physics (which is why it's science FANTASY, not science).

 

- A Jem'Hadar impacting at near-light velocity would instantly vaporize a Galaxy-class starship.

 

- A photo torpedo at warp speed would not even be slowed down as it sliced through a Roman Warbird (or even a whole fleet of warbirds).

 

 

These objects, moving at near-lightspeed or over-lightspeed velocities would have enough Kinetic Energy to instantly liquefy a planet. 1/2 mv^2 = 1/2(2000 kgs)( 299,792,458 m/s)^2 = 898,755,178,736,817,640,000

 

= a heck of a lot of destructive energy.

 

 

 

 

 

[queenhank]

However, you are forgetting something. They don't have the kinetic energy equivalent to traveling at or near FtL speeds, because they are, essentially, travelling through subspace when using Warp Drive. That's why, when they drop out of warp, there is no period of slowing down; they just drop their warp field, which sends them out of subspace, thus causing them to be stopped, within normal space.

[Tenebrae]

Indeed, if they are working on the principle of the Alcubierre drive then they would in fact have 0 relative speed because they're not moving, only the space around them is.

 

In any event, it's unlikely that many ships are going to be capable of more than 0.8c because that's the point where your acceleration translates into additional mass, rather than additional velocity.

 

Additionally this would suggest that those crazies reds came hilariously close to "liquifying" our planet back in 1961.

 

Of course, that calculation is essentially spurious anyway as such relativistic velocities would make the mass considerably greater than it was initially.

 

And just when did photon torpedoes actually have ANYTHING to do with being warp speed projectiles?

 

Check your facts

 

They've made several references to them being filled with matter and anti-matter but as far as I'm aware, we have yet to see any of them go to warp. Although obviously they can be used while at warp but that's not really the same.

[maverick]

perhaps its not consideed sporting.

 

it would be easy to send a runabout in to anything at high warp and on autopilot.

 

simple, job done

 

just something the writers didnt come up with, perhaps cos once you make a battle tht easy to win, all the enjoyment is gone

[queenhank]

They've said before that targeting at warp speeds is nigh impossible. Of course, if the episode requires it, they can still do it, but...yeah, you get the point.

[Tenebrae]

Reminds me of how Holly in Red Dwarf describes piloting at FTL speeds.

[Mav]

They've said before that targeting at warp speeds is nigh impossible. Of course' date=' if the episode requires it, they can still do it, but...yeah, you get the point.[/quote']

 

If you plan to plot a target far away, I can understand that.

 

But if you have Ship A that is only a few thousand kilometers away from Ship B then make Ship A simply aim itself toward Ship B and enter warp speed I don't see how it could be impossible.

 

It'd be like, a typical blind start of the warp field. You will make the bubble and enter the warp speed but without a proper course plotted you could end up anywhere or hitting anything right. Well if something is practically right in front of you all you have to do is punch the gas. I doubt even the Borg could perform the calculations to maneuver out of the way before a shipt hat close at warp speed hit them.

 

Unless warp speed somehow causes a phasing of matter, similar to subspace fields or cloaking then as long as there is a tangible object in it's path it's going to hit it. Look at Nemesis. I can't remember if it was Impulse or just what little maneuvering thrusters they had but they weren't moving fast. And you see how much damage they did too the Scimitar at that speed? Imagine warp speed. It'd be like dropping a small coin off a insanely tall building and having it hit a plate of glass. It'd just have so much speed and force it'd rip through whatever it hit, despite the defenses.