TetsuoShima Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Eh, sorry people, I accidentally clicked the wrong button. I noticed I had posted the same reply twice, wanted to delete the second one, but I accidentally deleted the entire thread.... My apologies.... :thinking: Please continue the discussion in here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 ROTFLMFAO! DUH :cyclops: c4 :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhug666 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 doubt it as tuvix was essentially two conciousness merged into one merged body, both tuvok and nelix survived the process that put them into seperate bodies and conciousnes e.g. no murder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robby24279 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Yes and no, Janeway wanted Nelix and Tuvok back, and gave the order. But Tuvix was an entirely centient being of his own. He had both Tuvok and Nelix inside him but at the same time was a new entirely different form of life. But for the benifit of the "crew" she went ahead and ordered the DR to preform the proceedure to turn them back into eachother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Don't we have double jeopardy laws in the forum? A person should not be able to be tried twice for the crime of murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synexo Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Lemme get this straight.... Poor Tuvix got murdered, and then you murdered his discussion thread! Next Paramount will find a way to simply erase Tuvix from all our memories! TUVIX LIVES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleathco Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Very technically, yes. However, she could not get out of that situation without either: 1. Killing Tuvix 2. Killing Tuvok and Neelix So, looking at the situation, she could save one life and lose two or save two lives and lose one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenhank Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 But you're forgetting something: Tuvok and Neelix were ALREADY dead! Killing Tuvix to bring them back would be like killing you to bring your parents back to life. Had she let Tuvix live, she would not have been killing anybody. Instead, she killed him, to bring her two friends back from the dead. Kinda like when Archer killed Sim to bring back Trip, only he had a much better reason to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetsuoShima Posted February 20, 2006 Author Share Posted February 20, 2006 Ah, but to complete your analogy, you should say that your parents got killed by your birth and that they actually really didn't want you to be born in the first place, that does bring a subtle change imo :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Surely one could argue that Tuvok and Neelix aren't dead when Tuvix is created? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoJuno Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 1+1+0=2 therefore 2 must equal 1+1+0 1 representing tuvok and neelix 2 representing tuvix 0 representing the flower gene it balances therefore not murder regardless of consciousness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Isn't maths that how OJ got off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Surely one could argue that Tuvok and Neelix aren't dead when Tuvix is created? Then the reverse must also be true...he lives on in them. c4 B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I would argue that Tuvix WAS a totally new individual, born of the intimate interactions of the memories and personalities of Tuvok and Neelix that would never have otherwise came about. A cake isn't just a collection of eggs, flour, milk, sugar, heat, etc.... it's a cake, something that is unique from it's component parts. Likewise, Tuvix was a unique individual created by the blendings of two entire lifetimes of experiences in intimate ways that were only possible by the Tuvok/Neelix fusing. Eliminating him was the equivalent of a post-birth 'abortion'. Obviously, Capt. Janeway figured it was okay to slaughter one innocent to resurrect two dead people (Tuvix was innocent... it wasn't as if he chose to exist at the cost of Tuvok and Neelix). If I remember correctly, the two of them didn't remember anything that happened when they were Tuvix... thus, he didn't 'live on' in them. If I misremembered and they DID remember... it doesn't change the fact that Tuvix, an innocent unique being born of their 'union', was killed to bring them back. ... and this whole situation is what makes a good, thought provoking episode. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amnot Borg Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 To bad they couldn't make another Tuvix with the transporter that could be separated into the original two "parents". Ya know, like Will Riker and his "brother". The surviving Tuvix would have all the memories up to and after the transporter duplication while the duplicate would be separated back into Tuvok and Neelix. But then, would we have murdered the duplicate? hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 If that were to happen then i'm not sure if they'd all be able to live on the same ship - it would be weird... and would make all '3' uncomfortable.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Would it? Really? WHO MADE YOU THE COUNCILOR? :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 you don't need to be qualified to know that having a clone of yourself - with the same memories - would be wierd! :cyclops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 I would kill myself (the clone) before the first hour had passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amnot Borg Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 you don't need to be qualified to know that having a clone of yourself - with the same memories - would be wierd! :cyclops: Tuvix wouldn't be a "normal" clone though. He'd be a strange "child" of Tuvok and Neelix. Someone new for the crew and his "parents" to get to know. Having their memories "might" make him a little strange; but, he'd be someone completely new. Of course, it would be weird. ;-) They wake up and they have an adult "baby"... hehehehe since they had no memory of the joining... the crew could play pranks... Captain Janeway "What were you boys drinking last night?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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