3 shows - 3 short descriptions please

[qiuness]

i am sure this topic has been debated hundred of times... still 1 line for each show wont be much to ask...

 

the reason why i post.. is to see why some consider DS9 the best of shows.. and voyager a horrible one... if you wont read through.. just make a little rank of all 4 shows.. after 1990 of course.

 

Firstly i watched TNG... which was superb of course.. a little slow on the start but the characters had consistency and it turned out allright...

 

then i watched voyager.. which i loved.. for the simple fact that they were exploring the unknowned, no help, no federation just 1 ship in a alien world.. call it a sort of enterprise as it first left the spacedock. the characters had consistency and i came to only dislike neelix

 

DS9 was the 3rd show i watched... allthough i didnt want to. becouse of its stationary nature... to be honest... it was... untill all the fighting started. sisko started acting when he shaved his had.. untill then he was just a an ensign for me :P. the characters didnt make any impression on me... just sisko, and quark... the rest were shalow i.m.o

 

the thing about enterprise.. well technically it was a disaster many times.. those time travel episodes.. where horrible in concept... no temporal prime directive... they had a device with all ships schematcs .. and never used it.. not to mention no one came to retrieve it... etc... the characters well they made an impact halfway... Tpol, trip, and the doctor... especially tpol... i dont know why. but the role suited her..

ending terrible..

 

so.. if i had to make a little rank...

 

1. TNG

2. voyager

3. enterprise

4. DS9

 

p.s come to say... first 2 brough tears to my eyes at the end... enterprise had a terrible ending...i wished tpol and tucker had fallen in love.. DS9 left me cold

[ceedj]

DS9 is considered the best by many (including myself) BECAUSE of it's stationary nature. This forced the writers to build issues upon themselves, so that you would have this rich tapestry of characters and stories that were present throughout the series seven year run. They didn't do "everything" right, and sure had some stinkers, but this was the show that took RISKS, and really challenged the ideology of Trek to that point. As a fan, I appreciated that, and will always be my favorite Trek.

 

Voyager gets a bad rap (in my opinion, a little too much) for doing the exact opposite of what DS9 did. On DS9, characters and events would have consequences, and those consequenses would HAVE to be dealt with, because of the stationary nature of the premise. Voyager had a damn good premise (lost in the Delta quadrant) that it only used when it wated to, and I think the show lost credibility as a result. The cast ranged from really good to outstanding; the guest cast was often good as well. The special effects were the best Trek had ever seen to that point. The problem was that a lot of the episodes failed to use the premise, or just ignored it completely. I think the "suits" wanted nice, safe episodic television that didn't require their viewers to have to connect the ots between episodes. I personally don't think that this is BAD, but I do think that there was a TON of unrealized potential for the show, and most long-term fans of Trek saw it as a letdown.

 

Personally, I think Voyager told some very good stories, and I enjoyed the crew dynamic much more than the "everyone gets along" attitude on TNG. In fact, "Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy" has dethroned DS9's "Duet" as my favorite Trek episode. My sister, who is NOT a Trek fan, absolutely loved it when I showed it to her last week; I think that says something. I also think that Voyager had some great character moments; there just weren't enough of them, and quite a few were swept under the rug in favor on non-linear storytelling. I think that's a bit of a shame, but it doesn't keep me from enjoying the parts of the show that I DO like.

 

So, if I had to rank, it'd be:

1) DS9

2) VOY

3) TNG

4) ENT

 

II have honestly not watched any ENT outside of "Broken Bow", "Terra Prime" and "These Are the Voyages..." The premise didn't really do anything for me at all (a preqel that looks much more technologically advanced than TOS? Rubbing gel on each other? Stuffy Vulcans? No thanks) and as a resut of an "ok, but not great" pilot, I just didn't care to watch it anymore.

 

Well, that was certainly verbose. :)

[Mav]

DS9 was revolutionary. Up till then Trek had been building up the idea and views of this utopian society almost. Where war was rare and usually solved eventually (Klingon war for example, TOS era). DS9 took a step out of the normal boundaries more than once. Instead of being away from money you had a cheif character who was all about money. You had a character who could literally become anything, you had an eventual Captain who not only took risks but definitely broke the rules to save lives (in the pale moonlight). It ended a tad weak but over all it was a story from the first day to the last day.

 

TNG was really this utopia almost. I never got into TOS cause it was really before my time but I'm spoiled, I need at least some decent effects and stuff. TNG painted this great picture of things. Gone were the needs to flip dozens of switches or pull gigant levers to move a ship. You simply looked apon a 2D display to pick what needed to be done. And of course we did what humanity needs to strive for today; tolerance and exploration. We weren't concerned with money, greed, or power. We wanted to learn, to grow, to understand. TNG taught us patience and understanding.

 

I really don't have a third. But if I had to pick, it would be Enterprise season 1 and half of season 2. It was just inspiriing to see our first real intergalactic ship that would explore. Engage new cultures, new worlds. Then when they began the series story of the Xindi crap I didn't like it much. Voyager had some great episodes, alot of filler and some really, really bad ones (warp 10?...). Since I never put much into TOS other than the movies, I can't pass judgement on it.

[Marcroft]

In 1987 TNG done what most thought impossible - it reintroduced Star Trek to the world, but a Star Trek without Kirk, Spock, and McCoy etc

As a kid (who was 7 at the time) I remember that my initial thoughts were you cant replace Kirk. Oh how misguided I was.

 

TNG wasn't meant to be a replacement - which I latched onto and very quickly, and so my opinion changed. TNG was the show with a glimmer of hope - gave a sense of ideals that you could see to strive too. However, its utopian premise was a little too good, and far too unrealistic. TNG also had this little way of re-using the same plot device over and over again - which at times just made it look like it needed to pad out a season. Just how many times did the transporters go wrong, the holodeck crash, or the Enterprise encounter some kind of energy being. It even had the equivalent of a clip show at the end of Season 2.

 

Despite this TNG went on from strength to strength in my opinion (although in Season 7 I think it didn't really do anything new - just was a steady show - I think that it shows that the producers etc were geared towards a film.

 

Then along in 1993 came a very different and grittier for of Trek - in the Shape of Deep Space Nine.

 

Deep Space Nine for me was never intended to fit in - the very notion of Starfleet being on an alien station immediately saw to that. This wasn't Federation space, and many people didn't want Starfleet there. This was the more realistic version of future, based very much in many ways on real life.

 

But it was still sci-fi after all and you have to accept that, but for a Trek show, this was a multi-levelled show, which has far more shades of grey then anything else.

 

I think TNG picked up on what DS9 was doing with character development, and attempted to change the utopian perspective a little, esp. when you consider that Riker lied re the USS Pegasus, through out his entire career before and during his service on the Enterprise.

 

DS9 was about recovering and rebuilding from repression. It showed how the world really is - rather then what you ideally want it to be. It starts on a very low point - 60 years of occupation - and just builds from that. Its first season - as with most Trek - was a bit dodgy to say the least, and never really focussed on that. It was still very much being developed, and producers didn't really know where to go or take it.

 

Things improved greatly in season 2 - and that when the magic started. It created characters that you would see more then just once - it created back stories, a past, relationships, and it continued its turmoil right through to the end. It challenged itself and what was set before by TNG, and proved that "Things just don't chug along all happily by themselves".

 

Then came Voyager in 1995, far too early in my opinion. Deep Space Nine didn't really have a chance to establish itself, and for me I felt that the producers couldn't wait to see how DS9 developed, and was bothered that too many people felt that DS9 was not TNG, and so wouldn't watch it.

 

Voyager in essence, was the next, next generation. But you couldn't have another ship floating in the alpha quadrant doing what the Enterprise did, so lets make them get lost and have to return home.

 

They had a mixed crew of Starfleet and Maquis - to give just enough to makes waves and internal clashes - which they never really used. You had them lost in unknown space, which very quickly became race of the week. You had the latest and best ship design, which shields were as crap as most other Starfleet ships, and of course, a female Captain.

 

Has to be said - I really enjoyed the first season - although Neelix in terms of make up design - really annoyed me. But the show it was doing in that early season was interesting. You can break the Voyager show up into three segments really.

 

Season 1-3 very much like TNG - with a majority of strong shows, but very independent of one another.

 

Season 4-6 became or tried to be more episodic - esp. with events happening in DS9

 

Season 7 for me just sucked and seemed to lack direction.

 

The thing I hated about the show - weird sets for a Federation ship, Janeways decisions were dubious, they killed the Borg even before Endgame (although TNG is responsible for this with the introduction of the Borg Queen), the show was incredible righteous in its own opinions. No matter what was flung at Voyager - they always won, and the biggest problem for me was the "We are the Federation - our way is the correct way and stuff you." attitude that came across. That was also esp. true of Janeway too.

 

The character development after Season 3 was weak as the focus shifted from the crew to Seven of Nine or Janeway. Whilst Production levels increased in strength, the characters didn't nor did the story telling - although there are many episodes that shine in season 4-6.

 

For me though Voyager wasn't interesting - and whilst they was being released on VHS didn't really compare in my mind to DS9. The VHS tapes both came out at the same time here in the UK.

 

Then came Enterprise. Really good production levels and interesting premise - for some reason Scott Bakula - who I love in Quantum Leap - but never before has Trek had a prominent star leading the way. Forgive my ignorance, but I didn't know who the hell Patrick Stewart was before TNG, and he wasn't often seen in TV before then *from what I can remember from my experience as a child.

 

The idea of Enterprise was though sadly, far better then the initial few seasons. Whilst the story telling was done well, it didn't fit with continuity. The show went its own bizarre, never heard of before route.

You ever heard of such important things in Trek history as the Xindi war - or the temporal cold war???

 

They were a little far fetched for me, and the show went off on this tangent - and did reasonable well in doing so - esp. with the Xindi War, but it had no place being there. Season 4 was getting better, but then the producers stupidly cancelled the show. So as opposed to making the show right in the first few seasons, they buggered up. There were also several characters that you just really didn't give a care about. Mayweather, Hoshi, to an extent Reed. They just weren't developed and seemed 2 dimensional.

 

Enterprise for me could have been so much better and it was getting there by season 4 - but it was cancelled because it didn't really gain focus until season 4. Had that happened as early as the other Trek shows, then it would have done better. Also it never pulled from the wealth of history that had been already established in TNG, DS9 or Voyager. It done its own thing and failed basically.

 

Then you have Star Trek in itself - my parents just kids really when it was first aired - and never really thought of that much at the time over here. Me and my brother would literally run into the front room to watch it on the old 14" b/w television that we had, and watch each show (reruns). It was with that show that I fell in love with, was amazed at the movies and the effects, loved the character relationships, and the stories- for the most part, and it was KIRK.

 

All the other shows wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Star Trek - so it will always be high in my list of Favs.

 

Star Trek - The Original Series - as its now know sits outside of rankings really, as I watched it in reruns and never in order. Yet I still love that show - and have the DVD's

If you was to through TOS series into the mix - it would come after DS9 for me.

 

shows after 1987 rankings.

 

1. Deep Space Nine

2. The Next Generation

3. Voyager - (changed my mind compared to an earlier post that I made elsewhere)

4. Enterprise

 

 

[qiuness]

wow... that was some reading... exactly the answers i was looking for..

 

a few more pointers to add for DS9 and VOY:

 

DS9 - what made me say what i sayd.. was the lack of ... complexity that the characters had... not counting Quark and Sisko, i have to say.. the war was a nice change from the utopian TNG.

 

VOY - i hated the fact that janeway never fired first or at leas back with some force...for ex.. the guys with the phage..(that desease) that kidnapped her crue.. she got them out.. and never bothered to make some threats or shake the place up a little bit to care them..

Oh and i prayed for the episode where they take or find a ship and bord it... repair and use it.. i never understood why they didnt take along any of those ships and operate them on a skeleton crue or make "doctor" duplicates.

The fact that most episodes didnt connect... didnt bother me really. i loved the fact that they where exploring the unknowned...

 

 

Berman and his crue could really take a look at all theese posts.. to intergrate some pointers into theyr next show.. like: sometimes torture is necessary, aswell as decieving. iF you defeat the "evil" civilisation take theyr god damn ship and use it.

Fights were soooo gay in all shows except Enterprise.. where we saw more realistic fights.

And last but not least.. characters should interact more as they did on Voy..

 

 

id you`d like let's speculate on what the next should be about:

 

1. Star Trek Giant (or some other cool name) - a starfleet battlecruiser and its missions

2. Star Trek Lost somwhere else.. ( i love the lost part... it can be stretched so endlessly without worrying about politics)

3. Star trek the Borg war (or other nasty ass aliens)

 

just that comes to my mind..

thanks for the posts...