News: Blacknova Traders

[mupi]

there is good evidence that {} and pold are the same person.  The evidence for noormees being the ssame person is perhaps less strong.  I think that howe ver they were cheating, they were using different cheat/exploits, which would make the evidence swing the away.  In either case, they both would appear to be estonian.  Without knowing their IPs, for example, the ship that is owned by {} is named "saldus".  If you look that up in your Estonian/English dictionary, you'll find it means "secret". Noormees means "young man" in estonian.  That's a pretty tenuous connection, but it is a connection.  If you look at the links I provided a couple of posts up, you can see that other games have been having similar problems with estonians, in particular, one named "pold" since at least 2004.  This means that 1) they have had (at least) 2.5 years to perfect the expoitation of the cheat and 2) if the admins over there weren't able to deal with them, without resorting to banning IP ranges, I don't think we will be able to either.

 

It's my undestanding from perusing the gamer's connection site that even on a restart, they just automatcally ban those IPs and email addresses.  they may have even banned them from the server, so they don't have to ban them from the game (using /etc/hosts.deny, they can be prevented from accessing the machine at all).  I understand that nite proably doesn't want to have to resort to this, but it is certainly better than havnig to resort to a massive cash infusion, which essentially brings everyone to the same level. (when you add 50T to everyones account, and there is less than 5T difference in net worth between even the top players and the bottom players...everyone essentilly starts over at the same base level.  I had 1T in the IGB, but even that isn't enough, when you are talking level 30-ish, to make a difference between being able to get level 32 or level 33.  So that means eveyone is able to get to about the same level....then it is largely a matter of who can get to the non-infused planets first, and thus start taking advantage of the colonists to make more money....If you are going to resort to a massive infusion, then setting an arbitrary amount, say, 1T per turn played, or 1T per score point (or 10 score points, or whatever).  That way, those who are already on top, actually stay on top, and you don't have problems like what happens to the cash the cheaters had, not to mention their defenses.  Just ban them from the start, and none of this would be needed.

[svendopel]

I stopped playing due to Pold's cheating. Got bored of being really hard (after lots of work) then having some one squish me and my empire without drawing breath. If we can play without any cheating (nice dream) I'd really like to start again. Will watch this forum with hpe....

[TFMF]

From the looks of things, the cheaters have not returned :)

 

Anyway, i noticed i now have  50,000,000,000,000 credits....now since i haven't been playing that much and haven't upgraded much either, i only have level 8 hull.....what should one do with 50 trillion credits and such a small ship? ;)

 

Seriously though - what should i do with all my money first?

[mupi]

if you don't know what to do with your windfall....you can always give it to me  :)

 

seriously though, this is the problem with the sudden influx of cash: if you get there gradually, you know what to do with it.  When it is dumped on you, you try to spend it all at once,  and it may or may not help.  Where I would start...well, I don't really know.  A lot depends on what you want out of the game.  If you want to be a pirate, forget it, we have that role locked up pretty tight right now.

 

Your best bet, IMO, at this point, is probably to concentrate on securing some sectors.  If you can't get in an alliance, at least offer a truce to the alliances so they don't start taking your stuff.  You will want to be able to build planets in a hurry, so you should upgrade your hull first.  Level 35 is as big as you can get, but you probably don't want to go all the way to l35.  Usually 20-25 is fine, though you may want to bump that a little since nite's game has a higher colonist limit.

 

Next, you will want to upgrade your fighter ability, computers.  This is because it is a quick way to do a lot of damage.  If you put 20Billion fighters on a planet, unless there is a lot of money there, it isn't worth taking.  Again, 25 or so is probably a good starting point.

 

Your other military settings need to be upgraded too.  Power, Beams and Shields.  Power can be left down a bit, but never more than a total of four less than Beams+Shields.

 

Note that you want to keep your ship relatively small as possible  The reason is that it makes it harder for those of us with large ships to take out, but you do want to be able to defend yourself.

 

Without the IGB, your money has no where to grow without leaving it on a planet; but make sure that planet is WELL defended. (having a big computer will help, because you can drop fighters easily enough), so you want to balance the need to have the defenses with the cash to buy them.

 

M2cw, your mileage may vary....

 

[JeMax]

ok this is some serious flaw, i upgraded to capture a relatively easy planet with level 26 comps and level 23 armour beams and shields against a planet with level 22 torps and beams and level 20 shields,and when i attacked none of my fighters registered as existing and i lost my ship, i upgraded again to the same level and guess what happened? 3rd time the planet had 0 fighters left to attack with and i was able to capture the planet but it showed again as 0 fighters. Its things like this with certain players that are making people think that some kind of cheating is going on. its funny how it doesnt happen with all players its never happened with players attacking me for instance in fact my planets with 30 mill + fighters and 100's mill energy in the past have fallen easily. The player in question was on the planet too and i presume lost his ship back to sector 0. thank the lords i have taken out every sector that dune holds will remain to see if he somehow makes a miraculous recovery and ends up in the top 10 from the turns he has left! i dropped 100 k points taking this feeble planet. here is the detailed info for the planet in question and the stats my ship was at so it could be looked into. note i had given my self ample fighters and energy and armour to take out both the planet and the ship on it. is no way it should take 3 upgrades to the same level to capture.

 

My ship

Hull Level 0

Engines Level 16

Power Level 22

Computer Level 26

Sensors Level 18

Armour Level 23

Shields Level 23

Beam Weapons Level 23

Torpedo launchers Level 0

Cloak Level 0

Average tech level Level 15.00

 

The planet

Organics: 23,448,141

Ore: 19,958

Goods: 42,890

Energy: 31,252,695

Colonists: 109,258,557

Credits: 4,351,925,109

Defenses:

Base: Y

Base Torpedoes: 3,524,321

Fighters : 1,814,536

Beam Weapons: 22

Torpedo launchers: 22

Shields 20

 

 

A little late...what the hey just joined your forums - ups to Admiral Arkaius ingame who suggested I sign up

 

Back to the quote.

1st up based planets add 1 lvl to the techs

From the game settings page: Tech Level upgrade for Bases 1

so the planets beams/shields/torp lvs are 23/21/23

 

2. Your ship is lvl 0 torps...tbh you need torps, they do lots of damage, especially against ships. As you stated the ship was on the planet. Half torp damage goes towards fighters, then ignore shields and attack defenders armor

 

Side note: Beams attack fighters, then shields any thing left goes attacks armor

Same sequence with fighters.

 

Your ships minimum attack configuration should have looked like this:

Power Level 23

Computer Level 25

Armour Level 26

Shields Level 22

Beam Weapons Level 24

Torpedo launchers Level 24

 

at least 1 full lvl above the planets...with the defender on the planet armor at +2

it will probably take two shots, but your alive and all that's needed is to refill

 

Most important ship tech Armor - no armor no ship. You can be left with beams/shields/fighters and survive an attack...NO ARMOR and your looking at the special port in SOL

 

...don't get me started on dune, pold, noormees21 that's an entirely new post

 

 

 

 

 

[mupi]

 

1st up based planets add 1 lvl to the techs

From the game settings page: Tech Level upgrade for Bases 1

so the planets beams/shields/torp lvs are 23/21/23

 

2. Your ship is lvl 0 torps...tbh you need torps, they do lots of damage, especially against ships. As you stated the ship was on the planet. Half torp damage goes towards fighters, then ignore shields and attack defenders armor

You do not need torps.  Torps are (mostly) useless in a game where SOFA attacks are allowed.  First of all, your ship can only launch 5% of torp capacity in a salvo.

Side note: Beams attack fighters, then shields any thing left goes attacks armor

Same sequence with fighters.

This is true, however you miss an important point.  Beams will only take out up to half of fighters.  this applies both directions.  So planets beams will only take out "up to" half of your fighters, and your beams will only take out "up to" half of the planets fighters.  Then any left over goes to shields.

 

Your ships minimum attack configuration should have looked like this:

Power Level 23

Computer Level 25

Armour Level 26

Shields Level 22

Beam Weapons Level 24

Torpedo launchers Level 24

 

at least 1 full lvl above the planets...with the defender on the planet armor at +2

it will probably take two shots, but your alive and all that's needed is to refill

 

Most important ship tech Armor - no armor no ship. You can be left with beams/shields/fighters and survive an attack...NO ARMOR and your looking at the special port in SOL

If you have shields left, your armor won't get hit.  You only need armor if you run out of shields. Howeever, if you forget that planet beams will only take out half your fighters, with the rest going directly to your shield, you WILL have armor hits.  FWIW, i have run most of this game with armor=0.  Since I upgraded armor, "just in case", I haven't lost a single armor point.

 

Note that in Mega's post, with l26 fighters he gets an enormous benefit that more than makes up for lower tech levels in other areas.  Level 26 gives him 3.7million fighters.  Planets' beams are level 22, with base upgrade, thats 23, or 1.1M.  That means that the planets beams are completely absorbed by fighters, with about 2.6M remaining.  His beams are l23, so planet loses 800k fighters, leaving 300k beams for mega and 800k fighters on planet.

 

Planet torp is the same, but a planet gets to launch 20% of capacity.  So the planet launches 224,454 torps, which each do 10 damage.  That 2.2M damage comes out of fighters, leaving 400k fighters.

 

At this point, the planet has 800k fighters to attack mega's shield.  Mega has 300k beams and 400k fighters, so 700k to attack planet shields.

 

Mega's level 23 shield should be able to absorb 1.1M.  Planets level 20 (plus base=21) can absorb 332k.  So planet shield is down, mega's shield holds, and the result *should be* a victory for mega.

 

What really happened in the game is that the game refused to see his fighters, or the planet fighters, and as a result, planets' full beams + torps went against his shields, which could have absorbed beams alone (l23 v l23) but with l23 + l20, its too much.  Your method protects against the possibility of that, but it shouldn't be needed.  If one of your offensive (beams or comp) stats is at least +3 or +4, and you can absorb in shields or armor anything the planet can throw at you, you can defeat the planet.  trust me, we've done this lots of times, and so have the cheaters....

 

 

[JeMax]

Everyone's entitled to their views and opinions...no argument there.

 

I'm an old bnt player from way way back...as in when the game first appeared. Ran a few games for a time 2002-2004.. Admin'd for 2 of the lead developers. So I'm no newbie/noob. Restarted playing when Gunslinger brought his GSXH version out - Xenobe hunting :)

 

No armor, No ship is still the motto of bnt - it's mostly how the cheaters managed to rile most everyone. Players lack of playing skill and knowledge, add to this their ability to 'cheat', pretty much spoilt the game.

 

In the case I chose to comment on - it is an unknown whether the player actually had fighters on board (not uncommon not to fill up fighters - done it myself a few

times). Game recognizes when a play has fighters/no fighters in combat. My assumption fighter bay was empty.

 

Next round I'll be an active player

 

Some notes from the faq re: torp damamge- rather then code so all can understand. Remember owner was on the planet in the example. And in this instance he chose to attack the planet directly, no sofa.

 

Your torp damage takes out planet fighters. (0)

Your torp damage takes out up to half of the owner's fighter. (0)

Planet torps take out up to half of your fighters.

Owner torps take out up to half of your fighters.

Your torp damage goes against owner's armor.

Planet torp damage goes against your armor.

Owner torp damage goes against your armor.

 

Notice: Torps ignore shields and head straight for the attackers armor.

 

Last note: Defender attacked twice - 1. Planet 2. Defender (owner on the planet).

 

[Amnot Borg]

JeMax,

 

Megalith and I were tag teaming cheater planets. It did not happen every time but it did happen several times on different planets. An attack onplanet showed us as having NO fighters onboard after we definitely stocked up for an enemy planet. It was not a SOFA where you do screw up and forget to fill up on supplies or energy.

 

I lost my pic of the attack screen but Megalith might still have it from my attack where I know I had 5 million+ fighters onboard and the game showed nothing which meant my ship blew up against the cheater's defenses. Either it was bad code or something was being exploited to keep us away from his planets. I do forget things but I had just filled up to attack. It showed nothing was onboard during that attack. I was blown up at least twice perhaps 3 times that way on different planets. It was not player error.

 

so you know,

I am Arkaius when I play as a badguy; space fighter trying to create a New Roman Empire.

Megalith sometimes plays as Tyoch or a variation.

Mupi plays as Mupi, so far.

 

Edit: By all means, fill us in on the Estonian cheats and what they have been up to elsewhere.

 

IMO, torps are useless on a planet, so easy to get rid of... possible exploit. empty SOFAs remove torps and energy.

[JeMax]

Hey. Oh man, sure I said don't get me started on the estees...

 

1. Excessive refresh designed to lag the server - excessive means to hold down the F5 key for up to 5 mins. Won't post the worst - makes them open to all. But (there's always a but...)

If your in the process of a direct attack on a planet, lag will cause you to double attack - hence the 0 fighters. Your first attack screen disappears pretty quick and is replaced by the next. Log tracks the last attack, coz server lag makes it skip a few steps. If admin has the time and inclination they can look back through pages and pages and pages...to find out. Man that's a job and half.

How do they do this - by never logging out. So they can check their logs for any activity - scans, sofa's, etc. Start that 'bug' anytime they feel threatened. (4 'exploiting' players, 2 hitting refresh...

other players running trade routes of 20+ during this period, server gets pretty busy.

 

2. IGB exploit...really don't want to post this one, tho it's been mentioned earlier. Definitely a code error - fix available I think.

 

3. Not only do these guys play, they run their own games. Figure that one out.

 

Counter measures:

Gunslinger creates a webmasters team - 'banned'. Everytime pold tries to sign-up (including alias's) he puts them there :).

Others outrightly ban anyone from .ee

Some use a sign up and cut off period - everyone signs up before game start, once game commences no new sign ups or no new players after x no of days/weeks.

 

As for your view on torps...I get your point. Not making mine very clear. BNT is a turns based game. Before you can sofa planet fighters:

Planet has beams/shields and energy, have to sofa energy, then torps, then fighters. Having torps on your planet, is a means of making attackers use turns - at least 4 per sofa. No turns...gotta wait & wait...

[mupi]

 

3. Not only do these guys play, they run their own games. Figure that one out.

 

That's easy.  Run your own game, you know how the code works (and doesn't work).  Server lag causing the server to skip a few steps does explain the one thing I couldn't explain without them somehow having gained database access.

 

Counter measures:

Gunslinger creates a webmasters team - 'banned'. Everytime pold tries to sign-up (including alias's) he puts them there :).

Others outrightly ban anyone from .ee

Some use a sign up and cut off period - everyone signs up before game start, once game commences no new sign ups or no new players after x no of days/weeks.

 

We have discussed this here.  Also a newbie and more advanced game, so newbie game (with some sort of game police) can be open to anyone (we get a lot of new players from various blog posts.  I actually found this game because of Sisko's blog, though I have played many BNT games other places before.

 

You can read some of the older messages in this thread for some of the previous discussion about this that has taken place.  Maybe add your own two bits' worth.

As for your view on torps...I get your point. Not making mine very clear. BNT is a turns based game. Before you can sofa planet fighters:

Planet has beams/shields and energy, have to sofa energy, then torps, then fighters. Having torps on your planet, is a means of making attackers use turns - at least 4 per sofa. No turns...gotta wait & wait...

 

Don't have to take 4 turns per sofa to burn torps, though it doesn't burn much energy.  PM me for details if you like... i have decided this is an expoit, so I won't post it, and will stop using it.  The code SHOULDN'T do what it does.  A simple error check would stop it.  I can even tell you approximately where to put the check.  Also, at least in this version (and I thought I checked that it is current....maybe not...), you have the order backwards.  Burn Torps first, then energy, fighters last. (maybe if sofa energy first, would help the exploit....)

 

 

[Megalith]

Hi JeMax,

 

First up welcome to NiteSciFi's BNT game, glad you're enjoying it and I'm glad as I'm sure everyone here is, that the cheaters have been dealt with, big thanks to nite for listening to the ideas on this thread ;).

 

The server lag you mention could explain the problem i had, but i did do the maths and i am an extremely cautious player when it comes to attacking a planet. I made sure by i had full armour energy and fighters before doing this attack, i don't recall many players being online at the time of the attack but i cant rule out some kind of lag effect causing my ship to be destroyed, however, this happened 3 times over the space of 5 minutes to the same planet the final time however the planet had no fighters left to retaliate and i was able to defeat it, the player involved is known to you for cheating however. Since this incident i am even more cautious and i remove  fighters almost completely with SOFA just incase it happens again (it hasnt i must add)

 

I would also  say i totally agree about having Armour, I try to keep it the same level as beams or shields (whichever is highest). At the time of my attack I was the highest ranked non cheater. How i do the maths for when ships are on a planet is i subtract 1 from my stats and then see if i can defeat the planet, in this case as mupi pointed out i had enough to deal with the planet and the ship. The stat screen did not display a battle with the ship just that the planet destroyed me because my ship erroneously had no fighters.

 

Now the formalities are out the way I can brag hehehe. The leaderboard once more looks like it did before the Est's turned up on the scene, and ruined the dynamics of the game, with the Legion ruling the universe. All hail to the Legion lol

[Megalith]

Just a quick one on settings can the planets generation rate be tied into a multiple of the turns, ive noticed the timer doing some strange things like jumping from 59 to 119 seconds then 60 secs later it'll do the same again. I dont think i'm losing turns over this but it is a minor bug i think.

[mupi]

So...when's the restart?  ;D

[Megalith]

lol mupi you lookin for a time to destroy us rogues before lol ;)

[mupi]

exactly!

[TFMF]

I'd quite like a restart. Since i only joined again recently, i've been at somewhat of a disadvantage...

[Megalith]

looks like this game like many before is gonna come down to a classic good against evil war. Not sure if Rogue Squadron is more Evil than the legion of the damned tho when it comes to it ;)

 

I agree tho a deadline for a restart would be good about now as the mother of all battles is about to start.

 

1st Feb would be a good target if Nite can arrange it? 1st march would be too far away and there are many players who would like a chance to play the game who are no longer with us. I hope Nite S0V and the old crew come back for a game. I'm sure Mupi would agree we need some quality competition in this game now :)

 

Certainly Nite and S0V wont have a walkover like the last game they played, The Legion understands how you felt after that and that is why the Legion has factioned into 2 groups as we all had no opposition and needed some fighting practice

[mupi]

i vote for rogue squadron as the "evil" force.  The legion was quietly sitting there minding its own business, when, without any provocation, the rogues attacked..... ;D

[Megalith]

lol i have trigger happy players what can i say :P

 

The evil pirates of the Legion of the Damned have grown to use to being in control of the universe, their bellies are full of rich foods and their minds have become soft ;) The Rogue Squadron is dedicated to removing these fat cats from the universe lol

 

It's about time for a reset tho i'd say.

[Amnot Borg]

the Legion is bad/good? no, never! we were thieving piratefolk with hearts of 99.99% pure gold or maybe gold-pressed latinum.

 

oh well, as usual, life or reality got in the way of my game.

I took one week off to help my sick mom at hospital and war is raging again. tsk tsk tsk.

 

lost my concentration, totally. was gone so never built up weapons for civil war.

forgot to scout sectors before jumps since most minefields were mine, lol. or were.

*BOOM* lost a 40-50T credit ship and had to rebuild with whatever I had stashed on my escape pod since sisko had taken my bank planet while I was gone.

 

I miss being #1.

 

so, when's the RESTART?