Why I think Voyager gets a bad rep.

[Arktis]

Voyager started with a great premise: A lone Starfleet ship trapped on the other side of the galaxy, battling with the dangers and uncertainties of uncharted territory, fighting to keep order among a mixed compliment of dissidents and carreer officers, and struggling to maintain Federation principles, all while trying to get home with as little sacrifice as possible.

 

But in the end, all it was was an excuse for more Trek. It's not that More Trek is bad, or that Voyager sucked, but that it dissapointed me. I expected so much more from it and I don't think I am alone. Again, I'm not saying it sucked, I'm saying that it failed to live up to my expectations given the premise of the show. This is by no means a "bash Voyager" thread. Just an attempt to explain/clarify why I think the show gets such a bad rep.

 

And of course, there are those who absolutely loved Voyager. And I would challenge them to show me exactly how it did enough to live up to the aforementioned premise which should have provided ample opportunity to challenge the viewer, to provoke thought, to re-shape our ideas of the future, and to make us question our ideals. TNG did it, DS9 did it, even TOS did it (for it's time). ENT might have done it as well but I can't speak to that because I never watched any of it. Voyager could have done it too, but instead it presented us with something that only lightly grazed the surface while placating us with overdramatization, bad dialogue, and poor plots. Sure there were some exceptions, but overall it was an utter dissapointment. Yes, it was Trek, yes, it was fun and entertaining, but challenging it was not. And challenging is something I have come to expect from this franchise. It's the measuring stick I use to judge good sci-fi in general as a matter of fact. And by that standard, I do not believe Voyager was good sci-fi.

[Antipodean]

I wonder whether with Voyager, it might have been interesting to have voyager return to the Alpha quad a few seasons earlier, say in time to participate in the Dominion war for example, or to have their own TNG sorta thing going on? Any thoughts?

[Arktis]

I THINK that you're suggesting that it somehow would have made the series more engaging? But then it wouldn't be Voyager anymore, would it? The entire premise of the show would be gone. So I suppose it would be even more of a dissapointment that way.

[bones2097]

sounds like really your talkiing about ENT.. lol...

[Arktis]

Like I said, I didn't see ENT, but I have heard a lot of negative stuff about it as well.

[Tenebrae]

My theory is - people didn't like it, so they say bad things about it.

 

Given the fact that awesome incarnate, Ronald D Moore, was on VOY for all of five minutes before saying that the premise was basically a sham... let's face it, VOY was a good way to allow in any number of species without regard for "regular" continuity. Like ENT, really.

 

Voyager might not have been "good" sci-fi... but I'd have to say that honestly, most stuff on TV ISN'T good sci-fi. If you want real/good sci-fi, you're probably going to have to pickup a book. There are obvious exceptions (B5 and new BSG)... but otherwise, I don't think that there is a great deal of good sci-fi on our screens.

 

That's neither here nor there.

 

In any event, I'd rather hope it was beyond dispute that Voyager didn't really make use of its premise. I mean, number of times Voyager gets half-exploded and then is just fine next week are considerable. As I've said before, for all the tension and angst over being stranded they might as well have been on a luxury cruise liner.

 

Season 2 was about as close as it ever got to fulfilling its potential but no, apparently that didn't work out in terms of ratings. Which is a shame.

[TFMF]

The last episode let it down a lot. They did quite well with the Kazon arc and by season 4 we were seeing the Hirogen and Melon (season 5) a lot so that was good

[Arktis]

My theory is - people didn't like it' date=' so they say bad things about it.[/quote']

There are always people on these forums who come rushing to it's defense at the drop of a hat. Strangely enough, that doesn't seem to be the case so far... Honestly, I was expecting more of a disagreeable reaction than this, which is why I tried to make my point as clearly as possible.

 

Oh well. I guess it's just another case of Captain Obvious striking again. :rolleyes:

[Centurion]

In any event' date=' I'd rather hope it was beyond dispute that Voyager didn't really make use of its premise. I mean, number of times Voyager gets half-exploded and then is just fine next week are considerable. As I've said before, for all the tension and angst over being stranded they might as well have been on a luxury cruise liner.[/quote']

 

You're right. No matter the odds, one always knew things would work out for Voyager and its crew in the end. It was just too safe watching it. Voyager should have been something like the new BSG, darker and more realistic.

[Tenebrae]

Oh well. I guess it's just another case of Captain Obvious striking again. :rolleyes:

 

Don't get above yourself, it's lt. Obvious.

 

BSG is just better than everything really. Except maybe alcohol and women.

[GorunNova]

Wait... isn't the new BSG that show with the never before tried storyline involving machines humanity made trying to kill them off? ;p...

 

<- doesn't find BSG to be the best thing since sliced bread...

 

Anyways, I found that Voyager had some very nice episodes in a sea of contrivances and pseudoscientific babble. It wasn't a bad watch, but in general I think it dragged what little consistancy Star Trek had down a few notches...

 

*sigh* ... at least it had some remotely believable aliens. (C'mon...'Romulans'? 'Vulcans'? 'Klingons'? All one trick ponies, and in the case of the first two, named after -Earth- things. Is it reasonable to believe that two alien races would call themselves names that are extremely similar / exactly the same as the Roman God of the forge and one of the mythical founders of Rome, respectively? And the Klingons have a home world that has a name that sounds surprisingly like the father of Jupiter... XD)

[Tenebrae]

Hahaha, well - it's not like Voyager is alone in attracting my contempt.

 

I think "OH GNOES, IT HAS H4X3D TEH INT3RW3B!111" line in Doctor Who... sums up my feelings toward it.

 

They don't call me negative nancy because I'm a woman that likes things.

[subspatial]

Actually the thing in Voyager that didn't live up to my expectations was Janeway.

What a hypocrite:

Follow the prime directive, don't follow the prime directive, save the crew at all costs, put them in danger by saving some alien,

repremand crew for taking certain actions, then do something similar herself in the next episode, etc etc etc

 

Her values never seemed consistant to me.

 

But I do love the show, it did deliver what it set out to do,

unlike 'ST:Enterprise' which was supposed to be about the founding of the Federation,

and discovery of the 'famous' trek Aliens,

but spent seasons chasing the Xindi, and episode aftre episode of personal character dramas.....

[Arktis]

But I do love the show' date=' it did deliver what it set out to do,[/quote']

So in your opinion... what was the Voyager series set out to deliver?

[Tenebrae]

40 minutes of masterfully formulaic Star Trek brand wholesome entertainment?

 

TNG set the precedent... and VOY perfected it. I still maintain that there was a computer program writing some of those episodes.

[subspatial]

So in your opinion... what was the Voyager series set out to deliver?

 

in a nutshell: More Star Trek :)

 

I think the Star Trek philosophy of '...to boldly go...etc' was the main premise of Voyager.

 

A ship forced to explore the far reaches of our galaxy, all alone and far from home.

Seeking out new life, not for exploration, but assistance.

And also a test of StarFleet morals vs the great unknown.

[slug]

Season 2 was about as close as it ever got to fulfilling its potential but no' date=' apparently that didn't work out in terms of ratings. Which is a shame.[/quote']

Was season 2 somehow different? I don't recall it being much of a deviation from the rest, maybe its worth watching again.

 

I find it difficult to watch anything prior to season 4, which introduced enough sex appeal to hold my attention, the problem was that you had to start watching the show alone with the door locked to get any substantial benefit.

 

I think season 4 was the best season of Voyager, if you look at it episode for episode you might notice that the majority of episodes are actually quite good, which is impressive for a 26 episode run. It is still true that this was in the context of the show failing to meet its premise, but forgiveable in that it was making reasonable television.

 

Think how great Voyager would be if it were made now. With TV execs ready to wholeheartedly accept serialisation, it would be a dark, arcing show, with stuff like 'Year of Hell' lasting a whole season and not being an alternative timeline dream or whatever it was.

 

That's the frustrating thing about Trek, not so much that its run out of ideas but that its squandered the ones it had. Unfortunatley, they can't even take Rodenberry's premise for Andromeda, which was basically set as a Trek series, to make a new show because its already been taken.

 

Here is Ronald D. Moore's 4 part rant on the problems with Voyager, it is seriously worth reading, it gives a good inside defector's view of the aspects of the show that made it utter trite, parts 2-4 focus on Voyager specifically.

 

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

 

Some of what he has to say about Seven is particularly priceless:

 

"It kills me, and it was always just vaguely embarrassing when you would have to do serious scenes with her in the room. You are just sitting there thinking, ‘Well, you essentially have this naked woman at the table.’ Everybody is just supposed to pretend like that is okay, but you don’t play anyone else like that. Why doesn’t Janeway come to the bridge in a halter-top one day. Seriously, why doesn’t Tom [Robert Duncan McNeill] wear hot pants periodically."

[Tenebrae]

ENT was started in the "era" of serialisation... it only got vaguely close to approaching serialisation. I think that serial is somewhat incongruous with the Trek "formula"... even DS9 was never really close to being serial. Not much point going on about it.

 

Season 4 might have been one of the better seasons for Voyager but whether it was good in a context outside of Voyager is pretty subjective.

 

And Season 2 was different because it actually had the whole Kazon/Seska thing going in it running through the season. Sure, it was mostly just a few minutes an ep, tops - but it was still some form of continuity, which Voyager utterly rejected.

[slug]

Come on, season 3 of Enterprise was pure serial, unless serial is taken to mean that each and every installment must end with a cliffhanger to be resolved from that point next time, in the Flash Gordon/oldschool Dr Who/24 sense. There may be some dispute here over the stringency of serialisation as a term.

 

I'd say TV is a bit more heavily serialised now than when Enterprise started, Trek can be serialised, or at least heavily continuous, Enterprise did it in season 3 and the opening season 6 arc and 2nd half of season 7 of DS9 show it also. The DS9 writers hint that they were told not to serialise their show but did so as much as they could get away with for the season six arc. Any future Trek will probably be commissioned with heavy running storylines as mandatory, which should produce an improved result.

[Vyperion]

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

This is what gets me about it (and I can completely relate to his position - been there, done that).

 

Every show they were pristene, nothing evolved, everthing was stoic. A lot of the characters emotional troubles fizzled out in an episode - Neelix dying, Torres blitzed about all the dead Maquis, Seven and her emotional retardation (when that chip prevented her from feeling).

 

It was the first show I really thought 'I like this one but not this one' - some were clever, others were god-awful or just plain boring. And the Kazon? How is it that you can be travelling away from their space for two years and still have daily battles with the enemy you left behind in season 1?

 

Janeway did strike me as being a spoilt brat. She was supposed to be the Captain but there was a kind of 'Do as I say but not as I do' around her but then there would be other times when she was one of the gang. There were times (and I agree withhow Moore describes it) where she had a schizophrenic dynamic where you don't wnat her to look weak and silly but the things you do make her look weak and silly. I just never respected her because she came off as a lousy Captain. I sometimes imagined if I had been Chakotay that I would've punched her

 

If they wanted to do something different they should've got Joss Whedon. Voyager would've ended the same except they would've been destroyed with the sphere - "They made it home only to die one step away" (because Joss seems to hate happy endings).

 

I don't hate the show but felt it was a little two-dimensional with some of its elements. I still watched it to find out just whether or not they would get home.