slug Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 I seem to have just connected to the neighbours across the roads sky connection. This is a nice way of getting around dialup countryside problems when back home with folks. Actually, I suppose I don't really care if its wrong/ dodgy, if they notice I'll just say I had a wireless card in my computer, had tried to connect to the dialup, must have connected to their router by mistake. I mean, they're really not gonna be that savvy if their network is completley unprotected. If I want to do any serious downloading, I might do it in the dead of night, although I might sketch out doing that, they're unlikely to notice any drain just through websurfing. I am thinking its a bad idea to bite the hand that is accidentally feeding you, I'm just wondering whether to heavily suck on it when its asleep. There's sod all to dl at the monent anyway and I've got enough garbage to last a nuclear winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megalith Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 you need to be careful dude afterall ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law and people have actually been convicted for using another persons wireless router however, there is a case in your favour if they have no security as a wireless device will attempt to connect to any suitable transciever that it finds within its range ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slug Posted July 5, 2006 Author Share Posted July 5, 2006 That seems about right. I've just tested the overall download speed and it seems to come through at about 60-70kbytes max, so its not that suited for totally milking it. I suppose the one problem with any defence is that i'm not trying to connect to my own wireless router, and I'm in the middle of nowhere. In urban areas everyone's connected to god knows who's router and a lot of people are in range of wifi sites in cafes etc. Now those I would truley milk for all they're worth. Its one of those legal grey areas, I mean, stealing is still stealing even if you're walking into an unlocked home, but I'm not really doing that, its more like they are letting their possesions float about in a hundred foot radius around their house. I find it hard to see how I can be stealing from my neighbour without actually getting off my ass. Maybe the ten commandments should be altered to account for wifi. 'Thou shalt not covert thy neighbours bandwidth, even if thou ist not actually tresspassing on thy neighbours land and thy neighbour dost not protect thy flock with encryption methods a primate could master.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodean Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 'Thou shalt not covert thy neighbours bandwidth' date=' even if thou ist not actually tresspassing on thy neighbours land and thy neighbour dost not protect thy flock with encryption methods a primate could master.' LOL! :cyclops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 My thoughts on it are that people get what they deserve if they can't be bothered to hide their SID, use encryption, or shut off their wireless. Many people have wireless routers that they never use and leave on default settings, using only the ethernet ports, and if they only took ten minutes, they would be secure from all but the most dilligent and able people, making a clear case of intrusion if someone were ever to make use of their (enabled) wireless connection. Also, if someone is openly broadcasting into YOUR residence, it's your right to make use of it. The law used to back this position, but I don't know how it is nowadays. Suffice to say, despite the fact that you are connecting through a router, ISPs can externally see the MAC addresses of internal network cards. This means that if anybody were to do some digging, they could trace the usage back to you because of your unique MAC address. Of couse, you CAN change what your cards MAC address reads as, so even this little problem can be worked around. In short: knowledge is power, ignorance is exploitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StitchInTime Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 My thoughts on it are that people get what they deserve' date=' . . .[/quote'] Since we seem to into quotations here, ;) "Deserve's got nothing to do with it." --William Munny, Unforgiven ;) What seems incredibly obvious to some can be virtually incomprehensible to others. Alas, "a fool and his money are often parted." --unknown And, you don't need brains to get wireless just money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megalith Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 lol yeah it is very much a grey area the law on wifi and it varies from country to country as well and no doubt state to state i would consult a website on the law in the region i was living in if i wanted to be certain. As arktis rightly says there are ways around any wifi system if you know what you are doing but doing this will invariably break the law wherever you are. you could of course ask your neighbour but i am sure i wouldnt having said that. My quotes on the subject are:- 'theres more than one way to skin a cat' 'Love thy neighbour' especially if they provide you with free internet 'when in doubt, find out' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StitchInTime Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 'theres more than one way to skin a cat' But, make sure it's not your neighbour's cat. :o And, oh, yeah, I forgot, "there's a sucker born every minute." --Barnum. P.T. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amnot Borg Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 My thought on this is that whoever installed the wifi for your neighbors should have made sure they were protected against intruders as a matter of course just like providing some sort of anti-virus. Not having that protection is a fault of the service person that installed it. Tacky workmanship, if not carelessness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meateater Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 When I first figured out how to check the amount of traffic going thru my wifi, I found that I had 10 leechers on my network. Some were stupid enough to use their names or even telephone number. I called those idiots and gave them an ear-lashing. My wifi is encrypted these days, and faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesireal Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 'Thou shalt not covert thy neighbours bandwidth' date=' even if thou ist not actually tresspassing on thy neighbours land and thy neighbour dost not protect thy flock with encryption methods a primate could master.' LOL! :cyclops: Hear Hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slug Posted July 7, 2006 Author Share Posted July 7, 2006 it seemed to stop working for a couple of days, I thought they might have gotten wind of my treachery, but I reinstalled the software and dangled the wireless thing out the window (avoiding them actually seeing it) It does make me a little paranoid, I might disconnect the card when I'm not using the internet. I'm going to make sure I wear sunglasses when I walk past their house this afternoon, it's funny, they seem to have put up this slightly anal looking wall around their residence, but let their internet float freely around the village. If only they had a daughter.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetsuoShima Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 So, they have a wall around their building, but not around their network. silly, silly, silly. ;) You know, if they do such things, I'm willing to bet you can get into their home computers without any real break-in as well... I'm not sure what the law says about entering a computer network, but for an ordinary house, if you leave the door open and you enter, then you're not in any kind of violation, if the same applies to networks, you could browse their entire pc's without actually violating any law. Now, as I said, I'm not sure if the same thing applies to networks... As for the morality, well, it's obviously 'slightly' immoral, but wel... :D Give it another 20 years and people will be required to get a computer licence to operate computers on the web, similar to a drivers licence for cars... :) edit: oh, btw, if you can do it to them, they can do it to you too. And since you got connected to their wireless router, its logs will show that you connected and it's fairly easy to trace it back to the computer that connected (if you've got access to the computer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDad Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I'm not sure what the law says about entering a computer network, but for an ordinary house, if you leave the door open and you enter, then you're not in any kind of violation, if the same applies to networks, you could browse their entire pc's without actually violating any law. Now, as I said, I'm not sure if the same thing applies to networks...What law is this, and where? Slug, I'd be very careful about doing it. There have been several successful prosecutions for this in the US. Since your neighbors have the 'anal looking' fence, they might be the type to go after you especially if they received a copyright notice or a bandwidth warning. Just remember: The value of forum legal advice is directly proportional the the amount of legal fees the poster is willing to front you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slug Posted July 7, 2006 Author Share Posted July 7, 2006 True, anal fence = anal people, am in the UK, so its probably more relaxed here, I'm hoping not to be here for more than a couple of weeks, fortunately Azureus didn't seem to work, because that was a seriously dodgy temptation. I'll just use it for web surfing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetsuoShima Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I'm not sure what the law says about entering a computer network, but for an ordinary house, if you leave the door open and you enter, then you're not in any kind of violation, if the same applies to networks, you could browse their entire pc's without actually violating any law. Now, as I said, I'm not sure if the same thing applies to networks...What law is this, and where? Slug, I'd be very careful about doing it. There have been several successful prosecutions for this in the US. Since your neighbors have the 'anal looking' fence, they might be the type to go after you especially if they received a copyright notice or a bandwidth warning. Just remember: The value of forum legal advice is directly proportional the the amount of legal fees the poster is willing to front you. hmm, I do hope you're not implying that I'm giving 'legal advice' here, 'cause I'm not (neither did I say it wasn't illegal to use another persons network if it's unsecure, I have no idea whether it is or not, that was exactly what I said above, it seems lately people have a problem with comprehensive reading... (not directed at anyone in particular here, I've noticed this on many forums)). I'm just stating some facts. The law in question is actually quite broadly accepted in the EU (meaning that multiple EU countries have had lawsuits that came down to this). Anyway, it only applies if the person can not be charged with the fact that he planned on entering the building/grounds with the intent of causing harm. (examples were: just wandering around, needed to use the toilet, lost my way,...) Nor do I condone the use of other peoples networks (I did say it was 'slightly' immoral). But I don't have any say in it. I'm just giving possibilities in a slightly humorous conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megalith Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 what the law says and what the law should be are sadly 2 different things even in the uk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDad Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 I'm not sure what the law says about entering a computer network, but for an ordinary house, if you leave the door open and you enter, then you're not in any kind of violation, if the same applies to networks, you could browse their entire pc's without actually violating any law. Now, as I said, I'm not sure if the same thing applies to networks...What law is this, and where? Slug, I'd be very careful about doing it. There have been several successful prosecutions for this in the US. Since your neighbors have the 'anal looking' fence, they might be the type to go after you especially if they received a copyright notice or a bandwidth warning. Just remember: The value of forum legal advice is directly proportional the the amount of legal fees the poster is willing to front you. hmm, I do hope you're not implying that I'm giving 'legal advice' here, 'cause I'm not (neither did I say it wasn't illegal to use another persons network if it's unsecure, I have no idea whether it is or not, that was exactly what I said above, it seems lately people have a problem with comprehensive reading... (not directed at anyone in particular here, I've noticed this on many forums)). I'm just stating some facts. The law in question is actually quite broadly accepted in the EU (meaning that multiple EU countries have had lawsuits that came down to this). Anyway, it only applies if the person can not be charged with the fact that he planned on entering the building/grounds with the intent of causing harm. (examples were: just wandering around, needed to use the toilet, lost my way,...) Nor do I condone the use of other peoples networks (I did say it was 'slightly' immoral). But I don't have any say in it. I'm just giving possibilities in a slightly humorous conversation. I was just making a general observation. That's why I separated it from my question to you. I apologize for any confusion. You can really do that in the EU? I'd never get away with that. Here, you better have a damn good reason to walk into someones house, for example warning the residents about a fire or suspicion that someone is incapacitated, or you will go to jail. In some states, like Texas, people can use even lethal force against tresspassers regardless of intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetsuoShima Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 I'm not sure what the law says about entering a computer network, but for an ordinary house, if you leave the door open and you enter, then you're not in any kind of violation, if the same applies to networks, you could browse their entire pc's without actually violating any law. Now, as I said, I'm not sure if the same thing applies to networks...What law is this, and where? Slug, I'd be very careful about doing it. There have been several successful prosecutions for this in the US. Since your neighbors have the 'anal looking' fence, they might be the type to go after you especially if they received a copyright notice or a bandwidth warning. Just remember: The value of forum legal advice is directly proportional the the amount of legal fees the poster is willing to front you. hmm, I do hope you're not implying that I'm giving 'legal advice' here, 'cause I'm not (neither did I say it wasn't illegal to use another persons network if it's unsecure, I have no idea whether it is or not, that was exactly what I said above, it seems lately people have a problem with comprehensive reading... (not directed at anyone in particular here, I've noticed this on many forums)). I'm just stating some facts. The law in question is actually quite broadly accepted in the EU (meaning that multiple EU countries have had lawsuits that came down to this). Anyway, it only applies if the person can not be charged with the fact that he planned on entering the building/grounds with the intent of causing harm. (examples were: just wandering around, needed to use the toilet, lost my way,...) Nor do I condone the use of other peoples networks (I did say it was 'slightly' immoral). But I don't have any say in it. I'm just giving possibilities in a slightly humorous conversation. I was just making a general observation. That's why I separated it from my question to you. I apologize for any confusion. You can really do that in the EU? I'd never get away with that. Here, you better have a damn good reason to walk into someones house, for example warning the residents about a fire or suspicion that someone is incapacitated, or you will go to jail. In some states, like Texas, people can use even lethal force against tresspassers regardless of intent. Oh, they hate guns and weapons in Europe, most are illegal, usually you're not allowed to have any in the house. If you're part of a gun-club, you're supposed to store them at the gun-club. If you're caught transporting weapons in your car (say from and to the gun-club, you can recieve a warning, do it multiple times in a short period without a very good explanation and you get fined, piss the cops of even more and they may issue a request to retract the gun-licence, of course I'm willing to bet a lot of people just 'gamble' that they won't get caught :) ). If you shoot/stab/... someone who's breaking into your house (door locked and all) and you cannot prove that he had serious intend to cause you bodily harm, you'll get arrested too and possibly convicted, you could even get a harsher penalty then the burglar. No, they really don't like that kind of violence in Europe. Of course, it depends on the specific country, but they all are a lot more restrictive on such things than the US. They are currently in the process of reforming those laws (guns/...) to make them even more strict. Of course, I also have to say that people don't usually abuse their 'right' (ahum, not really a right, more something that was meant to avoid unnessary violence), to walk on others properties, it's usually not done, the only ones who do 'abuse' it are Jehovah (sometimes, not allways)/salesmen/gouvernment officers (ex. tax inspectors/police/... even when they don't have a warrant, door's open, they come in, they do knock and feel the door, if it's locked they won't force it of course, it doesn't happen often and usually for a good reason, also they don't enter aggressively, more inquisitively and 'politely', I've seen it happen twice myself, once for a guy who had debts accross the street and another time it was for checking foreign student visa for a couple of Chinese students in college). There is a 'reasonable' solution for preventing such things and some people use it. Have a dog or similar animal on your property. If you're on the persons property and you weren't invited by the owner and the dog happens to bite you, it's your fault, not the owner's, if you run away and the dog comes after you and bites you while you're no longer on that persons property and it is again the owner's fault (who has to make sure the animal cannot leave his grounds, doesn't apply to cats and such btw). Yeah, weird conflicting laws are everywhere (though as a whole kind of comprehensible). :D Beat one law, by applying another. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDad Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 If an opened door is an implicit invitation to enter, maybe an unsecured network is an implicit invitation to log on? Anyways, I wouldn't advise Slug to be the test case for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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