Commander Data Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Why dont the Federation use old bullets on the borg instead for phasers? Borg can adapt to the phasers but not the bullets (Star Trek: FIrst Contact) so why didnt the federation use guns on them when they are in hand in hand combat on the star trek series? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Given the ease of replicating weapons... it's a mystery. There really isn't any excuse by First Contact. There really isn't any answer that doesn't involve script. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 We have seen that sheilds can be made to block non-energy weapons - it's possible the Borg would have adapted to the bullets anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Possible but they never did - I mean, couldn't they adapt Keflar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Data Posted July 15, 2006 Author Share Posted July 15, 2006 the writers should have answered this question in one of the episodes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Captain Data - the fact is - they don't need to answer a question like that - because when they do answer questions like this - continuity tends to fail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 I think I can easily explain this one. With phasers, you can at least rotate the frequency/modulation of the beam. With bullets, you can't do this. That's why they never use normal guns against the Borg. Once the Borg adapt, that's it; bullets won't work again. But with phasers you can keep altering the frequency/modulation. See the difference? It's just not worth it to use bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyperion Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 I think I can easily explain this one. With phasers, you can at least rotate the frequency/modulation of the beam. With bullets, you can't do this. That's why they never use normal guns against the Borg. Once the Borg adapt, that's it; bullets won't work again. But with phasers you can keep altering the frequency/modulation. See the difference? It's just not worth it to use bullets. It was a confluence of errors. New Borg, Holodeck safeties off and first contact (ooh, poetic) with solid projectile weaponary. Everyone assumes that everything is consistent and is absolutely the same but there is always that small margin of error where the unusual occurs, where the conditions allow for one little 'that shouldn't happen' moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 There's no evidence to suggest that the Borg are capable of adapting to bullets, or indeed any form of kinetic damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabrood Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Speaking of bullets, wouldn't you need to bring a portable replicator along? Phasers are somewhat self-recharging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Well we have seen that forcefields hold back people - why couldn't they hold back bullets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 There's no evidence to suggest that the Borg are capable of adapting to bullets' date=' or indeed any form of kinetic damage.[/quote'] O.O O'RLY? Well we have seen that forcefields hold back people - why couldn't they hold back bullets? Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Oh, I don't dispute the ability exists to stop kinetic impacts - but the fact it's theoretically possible does not constitute evidence that the Borg can adapt to kinetic damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 There's no evidence to suggest that the Borg are capable of adapting to bullets' date=' or indeed any form of kinetic damage.[/quote']Oh' date=' I don't dispute the ability exists to stop kinetic impacts - but the fact it's theoretically possible does not constitute evidence that the Borg can adapt to kinetic damage.[/quote'] Remember when the Enterprise boarding party first sees Picard as Locutus during the final sequences of The Best of Both Worlds, Part 1? Worf tries to grab him but something stops him. Hmmmmm... I wonder what it could be.... Hmmmm..... perhaps... a Borg force feild that physically blocks Worf from reaching him? Locutus knew in advance what kind of measures to take... that's what his purpose was. So in this case, there was no grace period of adaptation. He already had the anti-kinetic force feild set up around him. And before anyone says "oh, well it could have been built into the ship, and not Locutus!", please note the specific angle of the deflection. Seriously, just watch that part and you'll see. And then of course there are in fact instances in Voyager in which we specificly see anti-personel Borg forcefields in use around vital areas of Borg ships as a security measure. So there you have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megalith Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 if the borg where so smart then why didnt they modulate their force fields with white noise? if they did this simple mesure then it would be unable to be breached by any form of modulated phaser fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 That sounds a bit nonsensical ("modulate their force fields with white noise"), but I am pretty sure I know what you are talking about. I think it is safe to say that it would likely consume too much energy to maintain a forcefield that could block pretty much everything. These are personal forcefields, being generated with each individual Borg unit's own energy, while they need to also provide power for countless other devices drawing energy from themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Sorry Arktis, I wasn't specific enough. DRONES have never stopped kinetic impact and that's the relevant issue. Otherwise Picard ordering hand-to-hand in First Contact would have been even more suicidal. Sure they could do forcefields but they've had plenty of chances to adapt to plain old punches, bullets etc. and I've yet to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megalith Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 White noise contains all frequancies from 0 to infinity at any one time, it takes virtually no power to produce modulating it would be a problem, in a sense, but then seeing as it contains all frequancies it doesnt actually need modulating as such. I suppose the real reason its not used is because humanity has to stand a chance against these foes or ST would become extremely depressing leading ultimately to the assimilation of the human race... a good story admittedly but not good for keeping a franchise going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Sorry Arktis, I wasn't specific enough. DRONES have never stopped kinetic impact and that's the relevant issue. Otherwise Picard ordering hand-to-hand in First Contact would have been even more suicidal. Sure they could do forcefields but they've had plenty of chances to adapt to plain old punches, bullets etc. and I've yet to see. Granted. However, physical attacks (even those of an android like Data with superhuman strength, or a bullet) obviously exert considerably less energy than something like a phaser blast. Remember "The Most Toys"? The entire force-field used by the creepy collector guy is contained in a tiny little self-powered device on his belt. The point I am trying to make here is that it's much cheaper energy-wise to block physical attacks than to block high energy plasma weapons like phasers. So drones using this strategy against regular guns is not exactly a stretch. However, it would likely interfere with normal Borg drone activites during conflict (such as interfacing with enemy computers, making use of assimilation tubules, etc.). And so that's probably why they are not in normal use, in addition to the Borg philosophy of attempting to deal with each situation in the most optimal way in terms of time, focus of attention, energy expendature, and whatever other considerations there might be. White noise contains all frequancies from 0 to infinity at any one time... As far as this goes, I have no trouble understand the concept. ...it takes virtually no power to produce modulating it would be a problem' date=' in a sense, but then seeing as it contains all frequancies it doesnt actually need modulating as such.[/quote'] I am SO not following you on this... could you maybe clarify yourself here? I think it's just the way you are phrasing this that is giving me trouble. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Inherently, that's the problem of 99.9% of shows/films and so on. The enemy is always more powerful and yet, somehow defeatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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