Federation $$$ question

[Guest c4evap]

OK. The federation doesn't use money anymore. People work for the good of society. I've heard that stated on TNG more than once. I just finished the complete DS9 series. Quark owns the bar, Federation people come in and drink and use his holodecks and gamble at his Dabo wheel. I know Quark wants Latinum...so my question is: How do the Feds pay Quark??? If they work for "free", how do that pay him? Did I miss something?

 

c4 :thinking:

[TetsuoShima]

Nah, the "we don't use money anymore" line probably is from TNG. DS9 kinda reverted back to "the old ways", but I guess the official explanation for that is: DS9 is not a Starfleet/Federation space station, it is a Bajoran space station and they appearently do still use money. :)

[Commander Data]

or they maybe make fake gold pressed latinum from the replicators :P

[Mav]

We discussed this alot a few months ago. Basically the general concensus among fans is the Federation still uses money on many planets. Like on Vulcan there are gift shops in the market place(s) where one could purchase souvenirs and such. BUT Starfleet doesn't "pay" officers and crewmen, occasionally it's just assumed they are alloted small amounts of "pocket" money. Like when Worf and Alexander visit a Klingon planet in TNG to go to a Klingon festival that celebrates the Kahless/Molar story, it's implied Worf has "pocket money" as Alexander asks for some to look at Molars "head" (a fake from a local scam artist).

 

And if you watch in Voyager, S4 I believe, the planet inhabited by telepaths who have eliminated crime from their culture? Janeway had to use currency to trade in the market place. Obviously she traded spare parts and stuff for the currency to later use to buy stuff she needed, but she made the point of saying "It took me a minute to deal with the merchant, I wasn't used to handling currency" when she goes to pay him for some part she buys. This could mean the "pocket money" Starfleet personale are allotted is just digital (like Quark always using his thumbprint device to keep record of transactions) OR most of them still aren't used to it. I mean the average Starship doesn't often go to places where they have a need to use money, places like Risa and such are free or at least they've never mentioned a fee for using the planet.

 

DS9 could also be as you mentioned a special situation since it's a Bajor station that is a trading outpost and such for shops and merchants. If you do notice, the Starfleet people can eat and drink for free, at the Replomat. But the Replomat is a small place that's open to everyone on the station. And since the Replomat is a Starfleet section (replicators and such) all their food is simple resequenced proteins like normal replicated food. The money spending on food comes from other places like the Klingon restaruant, Quark's Place, etc

 

Don't forget though Quark had a deal with Sisko. He kept his bar rent free, as long as Quark made some small leeways for Starfleet/Bajoran personale. Food, drinks etc Extra stuff like Bashir/O'Briens holosuite adventures were a "luxury" that I assume came out of their own "pocket money". Quark even let Vic's stay open 24/7 as part of his deal with Sisko.

[Guest c4evap]

Don't forget though Quark had a deal with Sisko. He kept his bar rent free' date=' as long as Quark made some small leeways for Starfleet/Bajoran personale. Food, drinks etc Extra stuff like Bashir/O'Briens holosuite adventures were a "luxury" that I assume came out of their own "pocket money". Quark even let Vic's stay open 24/7 as part of his deal with Sisko.[/quote']

Thanks to all for your replies. Sounds reasonable. However, I do believe you are mistaken about Vic being open 24/7 as being part of the deal Quark made with Sisko. As I recall it was Odo who made that deal (he spoke to Sisko and Quark) after staying at Vic's pad so he could learn to open up and tell Kira how he felt about her. Vic had a taste of a real life and Odo felt for him.

 

EDIT: All in all though...I wish the writers had given a decent explanation. Oh well...

 

c4 B)

[Symok]

You're both wrong ;)

 

It was Nog, after "It's Only a Paper Moon", who made the deal with Quark to keep the program running 26 hours per day (Bajor is apparently slightly larger, or has a slower rotational period, than Earth, as its days are 26 hours long).

 

ETA:

 

The only "deal" I can recall Sisko making with Quark was way back in Emissary when blackmails Quark into staying o the station in exchange for releasing Nog from jail.

 

Odo payed Quark back for keeping quiet about the Vic thing by letting him get away with smuggling something or other on to or off the station.

[Guest c4evap]

Oh snap! You're correct (c4 wipes egg off her face). It was Nog. It was the EP where he lost his leg. I recall now. Well, in my own defense I can only say this...I've only watched the entire DS9 series once. :p Thanks for setting us straight!

 

EDIT: Yeppers! Just checked Startrek.com and that's the EP alright.

 

c4 :D

[Mav]

Y

 

Odo payed Quark back for keeping quiet about the Vic thing by letting him get away with smuggling something or other on to or off the station.

 

That was a different "payback". It was Odo and Kira's one month anniversay and Quark wanted Odo busy that night so he could smuggle some illegal crystals on the station. So he tells Odo about getting her a gift and a holosuit program etc And they do, except Odo already knows about and let him get away, cause he gave him the idea for the one month anniversary.

[Tenebrae]

They kind of try to cover the issue in "In The Cards"... It's hard to say really. Obviously with replicators stuff becomes less important... money does seem to be kind of arbitrary and generally, trading seems to be a lot more common and barter.

 

If the Federation gives all its crew pocket money though - it must be getting the money from somewhere.

[Wazer]

I'm sure the Federation government keeps some money as reserves from trading with planets etc. which do use money.

This would make sense as they could easily buy things like medicines or technology without having to find something else to barter with. But the general citizens wouldn't need it. Ie this would operate like a reserve bank so money could be allocated to starfleet personel and traded from the profits of other trades by the government. It's not like they have to pay anyone else so they would probably have trillions in reserve.

[MrDad]

Money still exists, but is is of greatly diminished importance as compared to today. Many things, like food and clothing for example, are easily replicated and as such cost a pittance or problably nothing. Those things which are valuable are nonreplicable like latinum or services like Sisko's father's restaurant. Money is not necessary for basic living but is used to buy things not replicable or luxuries. That means most people in the Federation enjoy a relatively high standard of living as most of whatever income they might earn is essentially disposable income nor would there be any great pressure to earn money, allowing people greater flexibility in choosing professions. Even among the Ferengi, money doesn't seem to be a necessity. It's more a method of displaying and measuring social status.

[Moonstalker]

I was always under the impression that, with replicators, most things lost their value. The only things that remained valuable were things that couldn't be replicated (perhaps for example - Dilithium) or would take so much energy to replicate that it was easier to find it somewhere. After that, it was all back to the bartering system (e.g. medicines for dilithium) I had thought that money was issued (gained by Federation trading) for local planets to eliminate the crew from having to haggle for everything. Once a planet was admitted into the Federation, money was eliminated and trade treaties ruled.

 

Or I could be making the whole thing up in the hopes of cleaning you out in a game of fizzbin.

[Guest c4evap]

All good answers...but...where do Starfleet personel get the latinum to play dabo?

 

c4 :thinking:

[TetsuoShima]

All good answers...but...where do Starfleet personel get the latinum to play dabo?

 

c4 :thinking:

 

They extort Quark when Odo is not looking (or maybe he's in on it too). :cyclops:

 

jk

[Mav]

I still say pocket money. Remember when O'Brien realized Bashir could probably beat Quark at Tongo based on his genetically enhanced brain? They started with like what, 5 slips? If I recall, slips is the lower demonination of bars in terms of latinum which would seem to be "pocket money".

[Tenebrae]

Someone has said there is an ATM in Quark's?

 

Also at one statge, Jadzia loses a game of Tonga and ends up owing five bars... Worf inquires if she can get that much and she says something like "most of it". So... that means that they don't have a lot but the pocket money principle seems to be sensible and we can assume that the Federation occasionally charge people money for stuff so they can hand it out...

 

Also in DS9 - which is really the only show that ever deals with the issue - Quark concedes that he doesn't pay the Federation rent or utilities... but at the same time, pays for the damage to a cargobay... although, we can assume that might be to the Bajorans... but then, as the STATION is Bajoran, under Federation jurisdiction... why is he paying for the damage that will presumably be fixed by the Federation. Seems a bit of a contradiction really.

 

For latinum it goes slips - strips - bars, at least that's what it sounds like to me. Although has anyone noticed the amount of gold seems widely disproportionate? Especially as the amount of latinum in 50 bars of latinum is about a shot glass worth.

[Symok]

For latinum it goes strips - slips - bars' date=' at least that's what it sounds like to me. Although has anyone noticed the amount of gold seems widely disproportionate? Especially as the amount of latinum in 50 bars of latinum is about a shot glass worth.[/quote']

 

I think 'slip' is the smaller denomination. The auction in "In the Cards" the bids are on the order of "x bars, y strips".

 

I believe "bricks" were mentioned once or twice, but I can't recall off hand when...

 

I agree about the amount of gold vs latinum (as seen in "Who Mourns for Morn") I think that was more of an oversight on the part of the writters, though. If that small quanity were really divided up amongst 50 bars, it would be a very small amount. Unless the gold used was really poor quality, being mixed with a lot of much more brittle elements, theres no way it would have shattered as easily as it does, unless it was a lot thinner than would be required for such a small amount of liquid. Though if that were the case, they would shatter like that with or without the latinum inside.

 

(On another note, since latinum is liquid, how would Quark manage to have solid latinum "waste extraction" fixtures, as he plans when he thinks he's going to become Nagus?)

[MrDad]

For latinum it goes strips - slips - bars' date=' at least that's what it sounds like to me. Although has anyone noticed the amount of gold seems widely disproportionate? Especially as the amount of latinum in 50 bars of latinum is about a shot glass worth.[/quote']

 

I think 'slip' is the smaller denomination. The auction in "In the Cards" the bids are on the order of "x bars, y strips".

 

I believe "bricks" were mentioned once or twice, but I can't recall off hand when...

 

I agree about the amount of gold vs latinum (as seen in "Who Mourns for Morn") I think that was more of an oversight on the part of the writters, though. If that small quanity were really divided up amongst 50 bars, it would be a very small amount. Unless the gold used was really poor quality, being mixed with a lot of much more brittle elements, theres no way it would have shattered as easily as it does, unless it was a lot thinner than would be required for such a small amount of liquid. Though if that were the case, they would shatter like that with or without the latinum inside.

 

(On another note, since latinum is liquid, how would Quark manage to have solid latinum "waste extraction" fixtures, as he plans when he thinks he's going to become Nagus?)

Perhaps the gold was altered as part of the strip/bar/brick making process, perhaps as a security feature to prevent people from distributing emptied latinum bars. When the latinum is removed, the bar becomes extremely brittle. It would be another way to confirm authenticity.

 

 

[Guest c4evap]

Also at one statge' date=' Jadzia loses a game of Tonga and ends up owing five bars... Worf inquires if she can get that much and she says something like "most of it".[/quote']

Yeah, she'd have NO problem getting "most of it". :p

 

I believe "bricks" were mentioned once or twice' date=' but I can't recall off hand when...[/quote']

Yes. I also heard bricks mentioned. I forget the EP but Quark (I think) was offered 5 bricks for something or other.

 

(On another note' date=' since latinum is liquid, how would Quark manage to have solid latinum "waste extraction" fixtures, as he plans when he thinks he's going to become Nagus?)[/quote']

Either the writers screwed up (no way!, you say :p ) or Quark meant "gold pressed latinum" fixtures or maybe the actor left out the word "latinum" and the director didn't catch it.

 

c4 B)

[Mav]

Wait, the bars in "Who Mourns for Morn" were just gold. Remember Quark leads all of Morn's old buddies to one of the cargo bays, gets in a shooting fight and dives into the container? He finds out those bars are just "worthless gold", no latinum was in them cause...Morn kept it all in one of his stomachs in pure liquid form.