Arktis Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 I was just watching DS9 520 - Ferengi Love Songs, and I noticed something I can't believe I never saw before. The way Quark walks, the way he talks all low and soft, the way he waves his arms around when he's distressed... I thought all of these things were comical before, but I never actually made the connection. You know what I mean. ;D The actor himself is married. The character has several romantic interests. So why is the role being played like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 Hmm. No replies. Not even a "naw, Arktis.". You're all scared of being politically incorrect, aren't you? Wussies. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Are you insinuating he is a gay? To be honest, after their first couple of appearances in TNG they did seem to imbue the Ferengi with the sexual disposition of teenagers... that or kind of camp/clueless. I thought the stereotype more associated with the Ferengi had - controversially - been Jews? That said, people have said that of the Bajorans too. I suppose after the more cut and dry Federation = America, Klingons = Russians, Romulans = Chinese things became more clouded... although, how many times did they try and get away from Klingons as warriors stereotype and how many times did they just go right back to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 Are you insinuating he is a gay? You have no idea how hard that made me laugh. Quark's mannerisms are obviously stereotypically gay, though Quark himself is not. What I'm getting at is what this means; what is the message? I think you can figure out the rest. Keep in mind that the character has had romantic feelings and relationships with females. It's also relevant (and funny) to note the episode where he dresses in drag and the episode where he has that awkward bit of time after he shared the kiss with the Ferrengi female he thought was a male. My point is that stereotypes about sexuality (masculinity, femininity, manhood, lack of manhood) are being purposefully employed to say something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones2097 Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 hum i thought the klingons were the samuri/jap stereo type.... jem- hadar the germans .... lol :D anyway how a ferengi can become gay is a wonder to me, since their females have to strut around naked.... on second thought... if they got the same problem as the UK... (a growing elderly pop)... even i'd become gay...lol whats wrong with the way he talks and walks??? may cause hes an entertainer he think its good to be flamboyant, the center of attetion.... what you can say that he was ever gay, not even camp cause lets face it all i need to say is dabo-girls...and i swear i seems in evey ep hes in hes either with one or after one!! basically he was a pimp!!!! comon legit holdeck progs??? i'm sure he too advantage of those girls too being the boss and all,,,, rember they could only show girls giving a hand job on his ears on tv... who knows what he got up too. lol full stop! (<- thats a what a period is called in English... ::) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetsuoShima Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Actually, I hadn't noticed or percieved it this way at all... I just interpretted it as way of acting, If you say they are trying to send a message, I'm curious as to what that might be, any hints? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Actually, I hadn't noticed or percieved it this way at all... I just interpretted it as way of acting, If you say they are trying to send a message, I'm curious as to what that might be, any hints? :D Yeah i'd have to agree - i never saw it that way. I think they just tried to make Quark funnier. I mean what better way to get some laughs out of Quark than from making him a woman. Although to be honest in that episode they also tried to make fun of Rom in a similar way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mrthumps Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Hmm. No replies. Not even a "naw, Arktis.". You're all scared of being politically incorrect, aren't you? Wussies. :P My honest reaction wouldn't be considered "Family Friendly" and I didn't want to be bothered with posting but I'll put up a cleaned up version now: WHO CARES ABOUT THIS CRAP! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 I don't know - really the Klingons of TNG and later were a bit of a mishmash... I'd say they probably had more in common with the European warrior caste. I mean, you'd never see a Klingon sitting down to meditate and write a haiku. Too busy knocking back the blood wine and to be honest, Klingons talk a lot about honour but they fly around in cloaked ships Personally, I'd agree with bone - while there might be some mannerisms of the Ferengi that are a bit camp, they're just so... sleazy, it's hard to imagine them playing for the other team. I think pretty much everyone except Rom and Nog were perpetual sleazes (after their characters totally changed) and of course, Rom went on to score what's her name with the ample bust - although, he generally seemed kind of asexual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 The Grand Nagus sure did like his women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones2097 Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 leeta..... :o ten you old dog! you lye (<--mi think thats the right spelling...) who could forget her name!! ::) *now resist every temptation to goggle search an image ;D * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted December 19, 2006 Author Share Posted December 19, 2006 Tetsuo: Well I already gave you guys hints about where I was going with this. I thought I made it pretty evident. Everyone: That's alright if you don't want to think too hard about it, be dismissive, etc. I understand. I do. It's okay. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones2097 Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 naa really untill ten asked if you were saying hes gay i caught on... other wise i wouldn't have mosted.... :-* *haha it was a joke.. dude!* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 copy and paste: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/stmagazine/leeta-rom.jpg Saved you the trouble there, bones. I should also point out that it was only on a second reading that I actually "got" the point of the thread. If the words "mincing" "flamboyant" and "fabulous" had been used, it would have clicked instantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Saved you the trouble there, bones. I should also point out that it was only on a second reading that I actually "got" the point of the thread. If the words "mincing" "flamboyant" and "fabulous" had been used, it would have clicked instantly. The image does not work. You will have to upload it with ImageShack first before hotlinking the image. Back on topic: I also didn't really understand what you were getting at untill Tenebrae's first post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Tetsuo: Well I already gave you guys hints about where I was going with this. I thought I made it pretty evident. Everyone: That's alright if you don't want to think too hard about it, be dismissive, etc. I understand. I do. It's okay. lol Me thinks you're reading too much into this. c4 B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted December 19, 2006 Author Share Posted December 19, 2006 Faaaaaaabulousssss! :D No I don't think so. He's NOT gay, that's true. But his mannerisms do say something important about Ferengi philosophy and about Quark. It's a cheap gimmic, but it's funny and effective. Ferengis aren't very masculine by nature, Quark is even less so than the rest. There's a point there, I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Faaaaaaabulousssss! :D No I don't think so. He's NOT gay, that's true. But his mannerisms do say something important about Ferengi philosophy and about Quark. It's a cheap gimmic, but it's funny and effective. Ferengis aren't very masculine by nature, Quark is even less so than the rest. There's a point there, I say. Naw. People have been trained to think that way, nothing more. If a guy is a bit to demonstrative then he's gay. If a girl is not demonstrative enough then she's butch. After living most of my life stuffed into a male box I now have people trying to stuff me into a female box. Antiquated thinking (IMHO). But I do realize that your question is posed for understanding and not to cause trouble. Thanks for that. c4 B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted December 20, 2006 Author Share Posted December 20, 2006 Okay, I think I've finally found a way to explain what I'm getting at. Odo: "There's nothing heroic about earning profit." Quark: "There is on Ferrenganar." Odo: "We're not on Ferrenganar." The Ferengi are sneaky weasels who are weak and unheroic by our standards. Their idea of manhood is based on financial prowess (which women are forbidden from pursuing because it's supposed to be a male quality to seek profit; females doing so is seen as a perversion) and as a result, the qualities needed to achieve recognition of manhood in Ferengi society are entirely "alien" to us. If you'll forgive the pun, Ferengi masculinity is rather queer (as in odd). This is why I think the actor who plays Quark steals his mannerisms from gay culture. That's why most Ferengis aren't very masculine by our standards. Am I reaching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 I'm strongly inclined to disagree as - last time I checked, the world worshipped the almighty [insert currency of choice]. In fact, in many senses the Ferengi are used to play upon modern capitalism. Quark himself points out to Sisko that the Ferengi are an uncomfortable reminder of humanities past. While there is a certain masculinity associated with heroism - and DS9 clearly went out of its way to show that Ferengi were cowardly and those who pursued physical danger were social deviants - in recent years, I've oft heard many a derogatory word tossed at the grunts fighting in Iraq. By comparison those who have accumulated profit - so to speak - are respected, hold vast amounts of power and are sometimes even idolised. To suggest that a society driven by profit is alien seems an illogical conclusion. Ferengi society is a lot more two dimensional, granted but the similarities are clearly there and hence, I refute the basis of your hypothesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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