elderbear Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 I find the difference between the two major religeons (that being believer and non believer) is that one asks to take a leap of faith that a divine being is looking over you to maintain a "moral" life and the other is that you need a leap of faith to believe that YOU posess what is necessary to do what is moral. I don't need a divine being looking over my shoulder in order to lead a "moral" life. For me, immorality/sin is defined by consequences. I don't need the threat of divine retribution or the promise of a wonderful afterlife in order to be moral. I seek to avoid harming others - and don't always succeed - because immorality destroys the world in which I live, and even worse, it damages me. I do make the leap of faith to believe in the Divine/Source. I base that on my experiences, and on the many transformations in my life. Subjective evidence, that others could explain away. That's OK. It fits into my frame of reference and empowers me. Your mileage may vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Well bummer.......No slot for Warlocke? That doesn't fit my knowledge of you, Von. I respect you too much. Warlock comes from the middle Middle English warloghe, from Old English waerloga, meaning oath-breaker. No Klingon worth his salt would accept a warlock. Perhaps you meant wizard, witch, or sorcerer? B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vystral Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 ooooohhhh...you really don't want to see me get into it against the atheists... United Methodist - Christian (protestant) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vystral Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 I'm more Agnostic then anything. But who knows, there could really be a God out there, guess i'll find out in 60 years or so. ;) I have to say this, though... Are you really willing to wait to judgement day? I hate to be the one to break it to you, but even if you live a good life as a missionary and donate and tithe and whatever else you choose to do nice, you WILL go to hell if you don't accept Chirst as your savior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azuro Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 i choose peace..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engineer101 Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 islam is very fanatical from wat i read and also from the biography of frank herbert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuages Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 islam is very fanatical from wat i read and also from the biography of frank herbert. name a religion that isn't :P I think it should be in the deffintion of religion, otherwise it should be called a loose set of beleifs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcant Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 islam is very fanatical from wat i read and also from the biography of frank herbert. name a religion that isn't :P I think it should be in the deffintion of religion, otherwise it should be called a loose set of beleifs Jainism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finner Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 I have spirituality although I may not actually believe in god....if that makes any sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcant Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 [quote=vystral Are you really willing to wait to judgement day? I hate to be the one to break it to you, but even if you live a good life as a missionary and donate and tithe and whatever else you choose to do nice, you WILL go to hell if you don't accept Chirst as your savior. I've always thought "Judgement Day" a rather approriate concept, the only trouble is, who judges who? Anyway isn't Judgement day just a later tack on to reassure early christians that they wont miss out on the second coming just because they are dead? Anyway I Prefer to think its Twilight not Judgement ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freyacat Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 One of the reasons this topic is especially relevant, in my opinion, is that science fiction is one of the only modern storytelling methods that can adequately explore religious themes. I read the posts and sympathize most with those that have anger, even prejudice against Christianity, even though I am a Lutheran pastor by trade. In any given culture, the dominant religion becomes seen through the lens of power. A powerful message for compassion, peace, and humility becomes mainly a tool for propping up the dominant culture's values. To take a blatant example, if George Bush and his gay-baiting, and his war-mongering were really the purest example of Christianity, I would spend all of my days working to destroy this inhuman religion. Instead, I sigh helplessly, because I know Jesus is quite different. I don't believe in an infallible book, that's idolatry. I don't believe that non-christians are going to hell. But I do think that the self-giving love of Jesus is the best thing I've seen going, and far from the spectacle of the Christian media, there are some incredible saints making that love real in real churches. My advice to anyone who doesn't want to get burned- stay away from Fundamentalists, Non-denominationals, Mega-churches, and religious people who want to bend over backwards to make their religion "relevant" to you. But do seek out some humble community of faith, live with them, try following a path that wasn't invented in your imagination. Real spirituality is a path that takes you out of your captivity to yourself. Look for religious people who do something for the poor. Look for religious people who are political activists about something other than abortion. Look for people who aren't ashamed to worship in ancient, simple, traditional ways. Those ways are gifts, like meditation is to the Buddhists, and the sweat lodge is to my native brothers and sisters. They contain a deep wisdom that doesn't need to be dressed up with sound systems and projection screens. If you want to talk about real Christianity, and not the Republican party platform, e-mail me at bethlehem@montana.net -erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 islam is very fanatical from wat i read and also from the biography of frank herbert. There are fanatics who claim to practice Islam, just like there are fanatics who claim to practice just about any religion. The teachings of some religions tend to reinforce self-referent dogmatism and intolerance of diversity. Other religions have core teachings which are more inclusive. Karen Armstrong has written a wonderful book A Brief History of Islam (I think), which makes current events much easier to understand - as well as seeing how far jihadists have strayed from the original principles that Mohommed taught. Also valuable is Jihad vs. McWorld, a study on the culture clash between funadamentalists (not just Islamic) and consumer/greed-oriented western capitalist society. Both highly recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 ooooohhhh...you really don't want to see me get into it against the atheists... United Methodist - Christian (protestant) B) You're exactly right! I'd be much more interested in how your Christian faith and experience enriches your life and then to hear about how atheism enriches the lives of atheists. How do the respective beliefs speak to hopes and fears? To liberation? To social justice? To building community and to psychological growth? Far more interesting than in a debate which demonstrably cannot be won by either side - since each bases its premises on faith and can only fault the other for "inconsistencies." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 I'm more Agnostic then anything. But who knows, there could really be a God out there, guess i'll find out in 60 years or so. ;) I have to say this, though... Are you really willing to wait to judgement day? I hate to be the one to break it to you, but even if you live a good life as a missionary and donate and tithe and whatever else you choose to do nice, you WILL go to hell if you don't accept Chirst as your savior. Actually, Jesus was quite clear on who will enter into paradise. He said that those who clothe the naked and feed the hungry will enter into paradise because they have done their kindness to Him, while those who fail to do these things will be damned, for they have abandoned him. (See The Gospel of Saint Matthew, chapter 25, verses 31 and following) And that jives with John 14:6 "No man cometh unto the Father, but by Me." By caring for Jesus in the form of the poor, the imprisoned, the abandoned, we come to the Father by Jesus. Not a typical exegesis, but neither does it contradict Matthew 25, which "accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior" absolutely ignores! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 islam is very fanatical from wat i read and also from the biography of frank herbert. name a religion that isn't :P I think it should be in the deffintion of religion, otherwise it should be called a loose set of beleifs The less fanatical religions tend to be earth-based spiritual paths, new religions hatched in the modern age, or Asian (such as Zen). By the way, Matthew Fox has written volumes on a very non-fanatical form of Christianity - Creation Spirituality. His books Original Blessing, On Becoming a Magical, Mystical Bear, and The Coming of the Cosmic Christ open doors onto an authentic Christianity that maintains modern relevance, social justice, an ecological imperative, and is totally Sci-Fi compatible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 One of the reasons this topic is especially relevant, in my opinion, is that science fiction is one of the only modern storytelling methods that can adequately explore religious themes. I read the posts and sympathize most with those that have anger, even prejudice against Christianity, even though I am a Lutheran pastor by trade. In any given culture, the dominant religion becomes seen through the lens of power. A powerful message for compassion, peace, and humility becomes mainly a tool for propping up the dominant culture's values. To take a blatant example, if George Bush and his gay-baiting, and his war-mongering were really the purest example of Christianity, I would spend all of my days working to destroy this inhuman religion. Instead, I sigh helplessly, because I know Jesus is quite different. I don't believe in an infallible book, that's idolatry. I don't believe that non-christians are going to hell. But I do think that the self-giving love of Jesus is the best thing I've seen going, and far from the spectacle of the Christian media, there are some incredible saints making that love real in real churches. My advice to anyone who doesn't want to get burned- stay away from Fundamentalists, Non-denominationals, Mega-churches, and religious people who want to bend over backwards to make their religion "relevant" to you. But do seek out some humble community of faith, live with them, try following a path that wasn't invented in your imagination. Real spirituality is a path that takes you out of your captivity to yourself. Look for religious people who do something for the poor. Look for religious people who are political activists about something other than abortion. Look for people who aren't ashamed to worship in ancient, simple, traditional ways. Those ways are gifts, like meditation is to the Buddhists, and the sweat lodge is to my native brothers and sisters. They contain a deep wisdom that doesn't need to be dressed up with sound systems and projection screens. If you want to talk about real Christianity, and not the Republican party platform, e-mail me at bethlehem@montana.net -erik I want to attend your church! Have you heard of Progressive Christians Uniting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedrus Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 I believe God was created by early tribes of nomadic humans to fill the void of science in their lives. They didn't understand why something works.. so they automatically assume that it is created by something of a higher power. I think that nowadays, we don't need to believe in something like 'god' or mulitple 'gods'. Many things that happen in the world are now understood by science (even though people like my professors and parents don't want to try to understand them). This is just what I think. Please don't take offense to it, I'm simply posting to a question, not tryin to enforce this upon anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 That doesn't fit my knowledge of you, Von. I respect you too much. Warlock comes from the Middle English warloghe, from Old English waerloga, meaning oath-breaker. No Klingon worth his salt would accept a warlock. Perhaps you meant wizard, witch, or sorcerer? B) In Webster's Dictionary, a Warlock is a socerer or male witch. The definition of "Oath Breaker" only applied to INDIVIDUALS, not all Warlocks in general, so the old definition was done away with. ......Years ago. 1800's, I believe. The whole "Oath Breaker" thing was most likely the edict of a pissed off King who ran into more trouble than he bargained for....... ;) I am a blending of raw science, sorcery, alchemy, Christianity & Norse.......The ultimate Vampire - Warlock. :D No way to categorize me......I can't be pigeon-holed. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
percy01 Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 I was born in catholic country; I went to a catholic school + college After this I don’t want nothing to do with this religion….that’s why I choose for I believe in God, but have no religion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunc Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 I said that i was agnostic earlier, i think i would like to change that now. I got a phone call tonight, my father had a heart attack and couldn't pull through. So now i'm praying that he is happy and, well, somewhere, be it another plain of exsitence, or what we call Heaven. I am shocked, so here i am on nites forum, not quite knowing what to do. I just hope there is somewhere for his soul, or whatever it is we have, to go. Sorry if i'm not quite making sense guys, but all of you, i hope you "Live long, and prosper" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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