MrDad Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 It was the Master who ridiculed the idea as 'prayer', just as many of you seem to be doing. Neither the Doctor nor Martha claimed any such thing. They merely stated the mental energies of the entire population of Earth were being channeled into the Doctor by way of the Archangel system. Apparently, the Doctor deduced the signal was a two-way street. It had never occurred to the Master that his system could be used against him. There is one mystery, though. The Doctor reversed the effects of the Master's laser screwdriver with the energies he received from the Earth's population and restored himself to normal size and appearance. How did his tiny suit expand to fit him as a full sized humanoid being when it was tailored for a tiny, Gollumlike creature? After all, his usual suit did not shrink with him. This, in my opinion, was the major plot hole in the episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 I think it's easy to compare this season finale to the other season finale's we've had, which were both just superb, but that would be wrong, as this is a new story altogether. I loved it. Martha has been sort of hated throughout the season (I liked her), but i think she really performed well in this episode. It was nice that she got to save the day on her last mission as the Doctor's Companion. I must say, i was surprised to see her 'leave' the Doctor. I thought she was confirmed for the next season, but no matter, and i'm sure we'll see her again. The Doctor turning into 'golum'....yes...that was.......interesting.... :thinking: Although i liked the was Archangel restored him. I also liked the twist that the sphere's were the humans from the future, i didn't expect that, but i'm glad they tied it into the Utopia story. I too thought they looked like daleks, so glad i was wrong. :D It really was an emotional story. Yet again, they managed to create a great soundtrack for this years Doctor Who - i hope they allow us to buy it like last time. Titanic - LOL. Well i can't wait till Christmas now :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 The whole midget Doctor and stuff was just a bit silly - the kind of stuff that is to be expected of RTD, I suppose - as was his reversal. The Master not regenerating... well, I could see his point but then, I think his plan was kind of shaky. Basically, everything required the paradox machine to stay in place or it would all go the way of "Year of Hell". Ah well, it wasn't so bad... it just felt like another episode though. It wasn't really Parting of the Ways or such but there you go. Ah well, there's always next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 well its pretty obvious that the master will comeback via that ring, which was picked up by his wife (or someone else with red long nails). I am with TFMF...was a enjoyable end to series 4.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antilles Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share Posted July 2, 2007 Apparently it was 8 minutes longer too, never noticed myself :) But Id like to see how theyre going to fit that into the tight 1 hour (43 + ads) schedule in the States etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Yes, i noticed that. I thought it was a bit odd that the episode ran on for more than 45 minutes...Not that i'm complaining. It could have ran on till Sunday, i'd have kept watching. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 thats one thing that niggles me a wee bit, a normal bbc show that longer than 30 minutes is normally a about a hour, it seems that the bbc are delibrately making them to be 45 minutes and as a result sometimes the stories seem rushed just to accomodate commercial overseas station...maybe they wanna remember who actually pays them the most money..us! On a brighter note, it was noted that the end of this series attracted 8 million plus!! NICE!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mav Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Apparently it was 8 minutes longer too, never noticed myself :) But Id like to see how theyre going to fit that into the tight 1 hour (43 + ads) schedule in the States etc. I'm pretty sure it'll be considered a two part story. Not many shows in the U.S. on non premium channels run past 44-45 minutes (with 15+ of commercials). Since it was like 52 minutes long... They might split it up into two 30 minute episodes or one 1.5 hour episode (with an extra 20 minutes of commercials to split up the excess half hour) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amnot Borg Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 probably get the 1.5 hour special before you get 2 half hour doctor versions on SciFi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antilles Posted July 4, 2007 Author Share Posted July 4, 2007 Runaway Bride is airing this Friday in the US followed 90 mins later by Smith & Jones. Runaway Bride was originally an hour show so take the ads into account and thatll be the 90 mins. Theyll probably treat the 53 min finale as a 1 hour show, just throw in a few more ads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amnot Borg Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Advertisements take airtime away from programs. In the 1960s a typical hour-long American show would run for 51 minutes excluding advertisements. Today, a similar program would only be 42 minutes long; a typical 30-minute block of time includes 22 minutes of programming with 6 minutes of national advertising and 2 minutes of local (although some half-hour blocks may have as much as 12 minutes of advertisements). Answers.com had this. So, probably SciFi channel will aim for a 90 minute slot. Nearly half of which is ad time or previews and interviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyperion Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Oh, EMBARRASSING DEUS EX! Yeah, this episode was a joke, really. If it hadn't used the Voyager defence. Actually, no. The whole PRAYER thing? That was embarrassing... Horrible, really. Humans? Well, that wasn't surprising. Jones leaving - no great loss. She wasn't half as irritating as Rose but still. Not like she can't come back... eh, just a poorly written disappointing bit of a cop out episode. lmao well considering you always moaning about something!! it wasnt that bad..oh well lets see if you could of done better lmao...i think NOT! Actually I think Tenebrae could do better than RTD. While the performance from Simms was enjoyable there were too many pitches and vallies in the plot to care about what was happening. - The Master's going to die - He knew all along, kills Jack, waffles for a bit - The Master's going to die - He knew all along and destroys the anti-Timelord gun - The Master's going to die - "I forgive you" says the Doctor - The Master's going to die - "You aren't like him" says the Doctor to Mrs Jones and takes the gun off her - The Master's going to die - No, really this time since he's been shot and refuses to regenerate - Just kidding <insert borrowed scene from Flash Gordon where a hand picks up a ring with maniacal laughter in the background> Then there was the two 'same world' moments where Martha 'forgives' the woman for betraying them and listens to the pediatric doctor's voice. It might have been better to just have one of those scenes (listening to the doctor guy's voice). Then of course there's the Deus Ex where everything is reset. The Doctor restores himself (and his clothes too, bonus) and then the rest of the world is undone by the paradox machine being destroyed. Pretty much expected it. Although sicne those inside the carrier were spared from the paradox (oh, the nightmares some boffins will have about that one), what about all the people who were there 1 year ago that weren't on the carrier when it reset? All in all I'd say it was like the ending of Star Wars Episode 3 - too much crammed in, ran out of time at the end. Oh and the ending - how the frell did that happen? The Weeping Angels in "Blink" were smashing it about and the Titanic ploughs into it? Wonder how that's gonna be explained in the Xmas special (like I'll be watching it for that and not to see Kylie). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybrick Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Define "Deus Ex". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyperion Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Define "Deus Ex". "Deus ex machina" describes an unexpected, artificial, or improbable character, device, or event introduced suddenly in a work of fiction or drama to resolve a situation or untangle a plot (e.g. the rope that binds the hero's hands is luckily chewed off by a rat, or an angel suddenly appearing to solve problems). Basically how the plot was resolved - the paradox machine, when destroyed, 'reset' everything to how it was just before all hell broke loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybrick Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Define "Deus Ex". "Deus ex machina" describes an unexpected, artificial, or improbable character, device, or event introduced suddenly in a work of fiction or drama to resolve a situation or untangle a plot (e.g. the rope that binds the hero's hands is luckily chewed off by a rat, or an angel suddenly appearing to solve problems). Basically how the plot was resolved - the paradox machine, when destroyed, 'reset' everything to how it was just before all hell broke loose. Then by your own definition, The Paradox Machine isn't a Deus Ex Machina because it wasn't introduced last minute, it was introduced an entire episode earlier. On top of that, The Paradox Machine creates paradoxes and is the primary weapon of The Master for both episodes. Without it, the paradox effect can, or could, never happen. That was it's entire purpose so of course time had to reverse to before it was turned on, otherwise most of the universe would be destroyed. Destroying it from doing what it's intended to do isn't any more "Deus Ex" than destroying The Death Star at the end of Star Wars. Deus Ex Machina would be if Jack pulled a laser gun out of his butt (again) and destroyed it. Instead he used a machine gun, which were readily available. There may be an argument for how The Doctor being restored as a bit of Deus Ex. However, I don't think that qualifies either due to the events in The Shakespeare Code with The Carrionites and the power of words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyperion Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Except for the fatc they still remembered all of it and what the Master did which shouldn't happen if time reversed, reagrdless of where they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amnot Borg Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Except for the fatc they still remembered all of it and what the Master did which shouldn't happen if time reversed, reagrdless of where they were. well, the doctor did say they remembered because they were at the "center of the storm". the entire airship was asynchronous with reality when time reversed. explaining the missing crewmen and PM coudl be a problem. also, Martha's brother would not remember anything. he wasn't on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mav Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 with the whole "center of the storm" thing, why was the President (of America) still dead? In the previous episode, the Master didn't activate the Paradox machine until after he had killed the President and aged the Doctor 100 years. So if time was reversed to completely erase the previous 365 days, it just happened to stop it's reversal to right after the President's death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybrick Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 Except for the fatc they still remembered all of it and what the Master did which shouldn't happen if time reversed, reagrdless of where they were. Since we can't actually time travel or reverse time, we'll never actually know about that, will we? ;) Just because something isn't fully explained doesn't make it Deus Ex Machina. At most that makes it a plot hole, but hardly on the level of the one that has always bothered me with The Runaway Bride. Donna gets sucked into deep space attracted to trace amounts of a rare type of energy located in the TARDIS. Why would this happen when far larger quantities of this energy was being produced locally in London by Torchwood? Shouldn't she have been pulled there instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 Advertisements take airtime away from programs. In the 1960s a typical hour-long American show would run for 51 minutes excluding advertisements. Today, a similar program would only be 42 minutes long; a typical 30-minute block of time includes 22 minutes of programming with 6 minutes of national advertising and 2 minutes of local (although some half-hour blocks may have as much as 12 minutes of advertisements). Answers.com had this. So, probably SciFi channel will aim for a 90 minute slot. Nearly half of which is ad time or previews and interviews. My problem with this so called "ad time" is that it makes the makers having to either make a story over to episodes or if there is not enough cram it into the 40 odd minutes and rush the story. Seeing as this is a BBC production then they should us a whole hour like the rest of there shows...but saying that they probably want to make it appealing to overseas stations more than keep the fan base in the UK happy with properly made episodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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