werecow Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 and you thought that the whole time you were in algebra/science class "man im never gonna need to know this B.S....." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralLee Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Energy equals mass times the speed of light, squared. 2 E = MC (damn If I wanna find the squared character right now) So by all means, mass is a great factor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werecow Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Energy equals mass times the speed of light, squared. 2 E = MC (damn If I wanna find the squared character right now) So by all means, mass is a great factor yes mass is a factor even in the weightlessness of space but e=mc2 equation is an equation for energy conversion which states that if mass could be directly converted to energy without loss that the energy in simple matter is incredible....energy in ergs= mass in cubic centimeters multiplied by the speed of light(universally represented as a constant c) squared apply this formula and find out just how much energy an erg is and you will find out when we are able to do true matter to energy conversion that we can sail to the stars and beyond on something as simple as a dried brick of vegemite...thank you for your attention donations are accepted.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meeee Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 If these winds are so fast... think a bit.... speed equals gforce... almost light speed wind catches solar sails..... ship attached to solar sail whips in an instant to near light speed... crew of ship found 200 years later on outer edge of solar system looking like splattered uncooked omelette.... inertial "diapers" would be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulreaper Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 And don't forget - any kind of space rubble could make the ship into a schweizer cheese! (you know cheese with LOTS of holes in it) :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werecow Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 thats why my question a few posts ago about how fast these solar winds are...do we really know how fast they are???? ok nm i found it the speed of solar winds run from 800kps to 300 kps http://science.msfc.nasa.gov/ssl/pad/solar/sun_wind.htm the speed of light in kps is 300000kps... big difference......BUT!!!!! @ 400kps that is still almost 1,000,000 mph!!!! not bad for sailing speed!!!!!!! mars is 303 million miles away thats a little over 12 days!!!!! not bad travel time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symok Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Incredible speeds indeed. O_O And for the record, 400kps = 1,440,000kph = 884,448mph :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted April 22, 2005 Author Share Posted April 22, 2005 thats a little over 12 days! I could live with getting to Mars in 12 days...... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trig Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Only problem is slowing down? You would end up going ALOT further than mars.. I was reading an article late last year: Article and realised that we'd need a series of 'Gates' if we were to want to get around using these sort of speeds. We'd need to apply the same amount (minus the deceleration from friction of space debris) of force to actually stop at Mars. Thats unless you want to collide with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werecow Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 thats why my question a few posts ago about how fast these solar winds are...do we really know how fast they are???? ok nm i found it the speed of solar winds run from 800kps to 300 kps http://science.msfc.nasa.gov/ssl/pad/solar/sun_wind.htm the speed of light in kps is 300000kps... big difference......BUT!!!!! @ 400kps that is still almost 1,000,000 mph!!!! not bad for sailing speed!!!!!!! mars is 303 million miles away thats a little over 12 days!!!!! not bad travel time ooohhhh dang..i stand corrected....i aug of 2003 it was 34.65 million miles away.....a lot faster trip than anticipated.....by the time it gets this close again maybe we'll have out s#it together enough to send a mission there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuages Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 If these winds are so fast... think a bit.... speed equals gforce... almost light speed wind catches solar sails..... ship attached to solar sail whips in an instant to near light speed... crew of ship found 200 years later on outer edge of solar system looking like splattered uncooked omelette.... inertial "diapers" would be needed. Speed does not equal g-force though, speed doesn't equal any kind of force at all. Remember Newton's Second Law F=ma. Forces are all about acceleration And solar sails accelerate rather slowly 1mm/s². The slower acceleration would also play a part in the length of time it would take to get somewhere close like mars. I really like the whole idea of the plasma bursts that would push a ship somewhere in the same manor, and then slow it down with another plasma burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werecow Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 oh no!!!! not boring at all!!! very enlightening!!!! thanks for the input!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vystral Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 Just give me a good old ion drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted April 24, 2005 Author Share Posted April 24, 2005 If the wind is there, the currents are there as well....... We just need to find them. Ancient travelers used wind & currents to get where they wanted to go......I believe it is no different in space. The moon is well within Earth's influence, so we really haven't been in space yet. ......I have serious doubts that "Earth centric" science will apply once we sail beyond the Moon out into deep space. We've launched probes into deep space, but they were limited on the amount & type of data they sent back. .....Sort've like a "fire & forget" missle. I've often thought about the 2 Voyager Probes, once they left Pluto.......Did they find a "current" to ride to the next solar system? Did they get destroyed? Our sun's solar winds extend far beyond Pluto, so I wonder if the 2 Voyager Probes were affected in some way? Nobody knows.......Perhaps we'll find the 2 Voyager Probes one day, at the edge of a distant solar system. :stare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beawulf Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 the solar winds could certainly be used to travel to another solar system, as long as the solar wind hits the sails the ship will continue accelerating. Once the force of the solar wind has gone the ship's velocity will not reduce until another force is encountered. no comment on the amount of time it would take though. :) and yeah mass is very relevant even in the absense of gravity, force = mass x acceleration, momentum = mass x velocity, kinetic energy = 1/2 x mass x velocity^2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted June 11, 2005 Author Share Posted June 11, 2005 I'm ready to build the ships now!! ......What are we waiting for? :stare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 correct me if i'm wrong' date=' but while weight isnt an issue in space, MASS still is. [/quote'] You're absolutely right! F = ma -> a=F/m. i.e. your acceleration will be proportional to the force divided by mass. In this case, the force will be photons and/or the wind. It will be directly proporional to the area of your sail. The density of the solar wind is much less than the density of wind on earth - so the nice pics of the tall ships is really an irrelevant distraction. Also, sailing ships in water have more drag on them - whereas a solar sailboat has very little resistive force. The difference is that if you drop sails on a terrestrial boat, it will stop very soon, whereas dropping sail on a solar sail ship will lead to a constant velocity w/o accelleration. Being "weightless" in space is a misconception. It comes from everything falling at the same rate - that is you and your spaceship. The forces of gravity are acting on both, but nearly equally ... so within the fram of reference of you spaceship, you feel "weightless." Did I say falling?!? Yep - generally, things that stay in space are falling in an orbit around something. Satellite experiments were done (I think in the early 60's) with a large mylar balloon placed in orbit. The solar wind modified its orbit, decreasing its velocity as it approached perigee and increasing it on the way to apogee. As I recall, the orbit became increasingly eccentric until perigee finally hit enough atmosphere to bring the thing down. Finally, you could return from a planetary voyage with a solar sail - you'd just have to tack into the wind. One of the biggest problems would be micro-meteorites puncturing your sail. And, of course this contraption needs to operate outside of planetary gravity wells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beawulf Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 turning a solar sail driven ship to return back towards the sun wouldnt be a problem as long as there is a planet to slingshot around (and you retract the sails). the biggest problems definately is space debris and slowing down....at this stage I dont think there are any options other than using rockets to stop. sailing into the atmosphere could make a pretty lightshow, but wouldnt be particularly productive ;) Does anyone know of any other stopping methods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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