Eggiez Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 ....couldnt tell you if this particular Dr is a doppleganger or not but he acted like he just regenerated in Rose when he looks in the mirror just a few things to keep in mind Thats whats bugging me.. In the episode Rose he looks at himself as if he's only just regenerated.... BUT Clives images are all from the past, meaning he's travelled there since his regeneration OR at some point in this series (as we know he's going to regenerate again at the end).... If he's travelled there since his regeneration surely he's seen a mirror or reflection at some point...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
path Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 But I'm not sure if it's even THAT simple for Time Lords. I've been speculating as to whether if when a Time Lord dies, his effects on the universe remain, but his presence disappears, meaning even if you travelled back in time to find one when you KNEW they were there, they wouldn't be there. More of a supreme death for such great beings. With great power comes great consequences? I don't really know much of the who universe. I've seen most of the tom baker run and 3-4 assorted eps from each of the other doctors. So, I've only seen one time lord "death" that I can recall. In shada professor chronotis/saliyevin dies and his body just vanishes .... (I did see deadly assasin and arc of infinity ... can't recall if any time lords died then. I would imagine they did. Well someone definitely died in deadly assasin ... what happened to the body?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Man Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 ....couldnt tell you if this particular Dr is a doppleganger or not but he acted like he just regenerated in Rose when he looks in the mirror just a few things to keep in mind Thats whats bugging me.. In the episode Rose he looks at himself as if he's only just regenerated.... BUT Clives images are all from the past, meaning he's travelled there since his regeneration OR at some point in this series (as we know he's going to regenerate again at the end).... If he's travelled there since his regeneration surely he's seen a mirror or reflection at some point...? That is a fairly major continunity problem within a single episode, and is either a rather large mistake or it was intentional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenriswolf Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Clive has images of the Dr. and Rose from Unquiet dead on his website at one point, again with the update, the Empty Child is mentioned and so on. So we're seeing a lot of the Dr's travels already appearing in the series. I have to admit, now I have watched Rose again and seen the part where CE looks in the mirror, I think he's the Dr and he's only just regenerated from Paul McGann's Dr. "Could have been worse, look at those ears." So I think he's travelled there since his regeneration, or will travel there. We view time as linear, but time may be so much more than tick and tock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Man Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Clive has images of the Dr. and Rose from Unquiet dead on his website at one point, again with the update, the Empty Child is mentioned and so on. So we're seeing a lot of the Dr's travels already appearing in the series. Fenris- I'm confused by this statement. Are you saying the the site Clive shows to Mickey in episode 1 shows the Doctor at events that are to happen in later episodes? I thought the website scene only showed a couple of things unrelated to any Doctor Who episodes (like the Doctor at Sumatra and the Doctor in Dealy Plaza on 11/22/63) but I don't remember Clive showing pics/drawings of the Doctor at the Unquiet Dead location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenriswolf Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 The way RTD has designed he new series, is very important. He knows most of us have net connections so...he created Clives' website online. So when I mention the website I don't mean the one Clive uses in the 1st Episode. I should have clarified this. You have to dig deep into it, but you'll see all sorts of interesting things. http://www.whoisdrwho.co.uk The site is designed to be a tribute to Clive now, since we know he died. Mickey has taken over the site's running and there are subtle hints all over the place. Check all of the previous issues of the online magazine and you'll see what I mean, to quote the Dr. It's fantastic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Man Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 The way RTD has designed he new series, is very important. He knows most of us have net connections so...he created Clives' website online. So when I mention the website I don't mean the one Clive uses in the 1st Episode. I should have clarified this. You have to dig deep into it, but you'll see all sorts of interesting things. http://www.whoisdrwho.co.uk The site is designed to be a tribute to Clive now, since we know he died. Mickey has taken over the site's running and there are subtle hints all over the place. Check all of the previous issues of the online magazine and you'll see what I mean, to quote the Dr. It's fantastic! Thanks Fenris! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenriswolf Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 You're more than welcome m8. I have delved quite deep into the new series, I used to know a load about the old Who but the new one has grabbed me a lot more for some reason from an information digging aspect. The other site, linked at the bottom, the GeoComtex one is worth a poke at -- as is the UNIT website linked off the main BBC Dr. Who site - there are references to Bad Wolf all over if you look. try the pw: badwolf too on the UNIT site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thraxman Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 ....couldnt tell you if this particular Dr is a doppleganger or not but he acted like he just regenerated in Rose when he looks in the mirror just a few things to keep in mind Thats whats bugging me.. In the episode Rose he looks at himself as if he's only just regenerated.... BUT Clives images are all from the past, meaning he's travelled there since his regeneration OR at some point in this series (as we know he's going to regenerate again at the end).... If he's travelled there since his regeneration surely he's seen a mirror or reflection at some point...? That is a fairly major continunity problem within a single episode, and is either a rather large mistake or it was intentional. I don't see any of this as a continuity problem, unless we assume that the only travels of the Doctor are those documented on television :) A few of the episodes clearly happen pretty much back to back, like the first two of the season. But what happens between "Fathers' Day" and "The Empty Child"? Could have been weeks of travels between the events of those two episodes for all we know, resulting in the pictures clive had in the episode "Rose". The way I see it, we only see events in the Doctor's life that are interesting enough to hit the air waves :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Man Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 ....couldnt tell you if this particular Dr is a doppleganger or not but he acted like he just regenerated in Rose when he looks in the mirror just a few things to keep in mind Thats whats bugging me.. In the episode Rose he looks at himself as if he's only just regenerated.... BUT Clives images are all from the past, meaning he's travelled there since his regeneration OR at some point in this series (as we know he's going to regenerate again at the end).... If he's travelled there since his regeneration surely he's seen a mirror or reflection at some point...? That is a fairly major continunity problem within a single episode, and is either a rather large mistake or it was intentional. I don't see any of this as a continuity problem, unless we assume that the only travels of the Doctor are those documented on television :) A few of the episodes clearly happen pretty much back to back, like the first two of the season. But what happens between "Fathers' Day" and "The Empty Child"? Could have been weeks of travels between the events of those two episodes for all we know, resulting in the pictures clive had in the episode "Rose". The way I see it, we only see events in the Doctor's life that are interesting enough to hit the air waves :) Hi Thraxman - a couple of questions: In Rose, if we assume that the 9th Doctor just regenerated, and he's looking at his new visage for the first time, is it likely that he's travelled to at least three other places before getting to the Autons? And wouldn't Nov. 22 1963 be kind of a major event in the Doctors story if he was there? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenriswolf Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 It also depends if we view time as linear or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 We already know in Doctor Who that time != linear... if only that the Doctor has said it so many bloody times ^^' He could have easily came back later, resulting in those sightings. Also, without time lords breathing down his back, he can do other interesting things... too bad many of 'em would probably end up like in 'Father's Day', though ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenriswolf Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 We already know in Doctor Who that time != linear... if only that the Doctor has said it so many bloody times ^^' He could have easily came back later, resulting in those sightings. Also, without time lords breathing down his back, he can do other interesting things... too bad many of 'em would probably end up like in 'Father's Day', though ;p I tend to never view time as linear, if you write for a living and some of those things involve messing with time/dimensions the last thing you want to do is limit your options. He bounces around all over the place time wise, it's quite possible as you say for him to have regenerated prior to Rose and still not have seen his face - he doesn't tend to look in mirrors all the time, busy bouncing around and getting into trouble. He may have been regenerated for a while, or only briefly. Without something that fills in the events (that would be Canon) between the TV Movie and Rose, we can't truly say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antilles Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Itd be interesting to find out WHAT caused him to regenerate from McGann to Eccleston. Im sure itll get told one day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thraxman Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Hi Thraxman - a couple of questions: In Rose, if we assume that the 9th Doctor just regenerated, and he's looking at his new visage for the first time, is it likely that he's travelled to at least three other places before getting to the Autons? And wouldn't Nov. 22 1963 be kind of a major event in the Doctors story if he was there? :) Hi :) Absolutely not, and here is is an example to illustrate why: Suppose one week after I type this, I travel back in time and meet, say, Marilyn Monroe, and have my picture taken with her. That picture exists in history from that date on... I could right now actually scan it or find it on the internet and attach it to this post as I type this, even though I have not yet travelled back. However, I would not yet know that the picture exists unless someone found it and showed it to me, or if I happened to stumble accross it myself... In other words, at this moment I would not remember the picture being taken because I don't have a memory of what I do next week (even though what I do next week will take place in the past), but the picture would certainly exist. If I found the picture, I would know that yup, sooner or later I will travel back and see her. I'd demonstrate this, but, hehe, well, I don't have a TARDIS handy ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Itd be interesting to find out WHAT caused him to regenerate from McGann to Eccleston. Im sure itll get told one day! My guess? Accident during the Time War ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antilles Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 And thats why Time Travel will never be possible because if it will become possible it would be possible now due to the fact that all one has to do is travel back in time and make it available from that point and so on and so on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 ... and get eaten by ravenous critters from outside time ala 'Father's Day'? No thanks ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Taking a quantum mechanical standpoint, it's quite possible that time travel is doable... but pinpointing WHAT past would be the hard part. With a time machine, the logical first step is to keep a lock on where you came from so you can go right back to where and when you left after your trip is done. So... you go back in time, blow up Chicago, say, and then travel back to your origin point. Looking in the news, you find that Chicago is alive and well... nothing's different. You definitely changed a past, but it wasn't yours... because yours has a Chicago that wasn't blown up. Your time machine was set up to go back to your present, which was derived from your past... and your past had a Chicago. On the other hand, you could stick around in this different past until it progresses to the time from your timeline that you left, and things WOULD be different... but it's still not your present, because your present has a Chicago that was never blown up. The only case where it would be at all possible to visit your own past wouldn't be changing it at all, because if you look hard enough, whatever you did was already done by someone matching your own description. The sad thing is that you can never be sure if that was the actual you, or another you; identical in all respects to you except for the one point that it isn't you. You couldn't know if you changed your own past, or the past of a timeline that was identical to yours, but not yours. ... true time travel would only become possible when it's possible to isolate the exact past or (even harder) future that's your own... and even if you did manage to isolate it, you can only fulfill your own past, since doing otherwise ensures that you're -not- in your own past by necessity. If you DON'T stick to the exact spot where you left, it becomes FAR more difficult... you can give up all hope of ever returning to your exact timeline, unless you can somehow keep a lock on it in general while being able to change the destination... and even then, it may not be possible to determine the EXACT timeline given Heisenburg's uncertainty principle... just one observeably similar to yours. Isolating a time line may literally require tracking the existance, position, momentum, creation, and destruction of every particle in that timeline's universe for as long as it exists... which is impossible, given you can't measure a particle's position and momentum simultaneously with exact results. One last snag, though... experiments in time travel might wipe out our universe before they become at all useful. You see, if we flail out at random and lock onto a universe that happens to have a different and more stable set of physical laws, they may shift into our universe, wiping out our universe with these newer, more stable laws... sort of a big bang. (Hmmm... makes me wonder if that may be how our universe began? Botched time travel experimentation?) ... a civilization would have to be able to figure out how to connect to universes similar or less stable than their own before even thinking of trying to connect to them, or they may wipe themselves (and everything else) out. Of course, it's unethical to wipe out universes in the name of science, so connecting to less stable universes would be a no-no. :rolleyes: ... and if we connect to a universe with different combinations of dimensions than ours? Now THAT would get weird, and probably get quite lethal for either us or them. *whew* Quantum multiworld theory is fun ^^ ... this all derives, of course, from the wave nature of the universe. Assuming everything exists at all times and in all permutations eliminates arbitrary limitations and solves pretty much all paradoxes involved with time travel... and there's at least a little bit of theoretical backing for it. Time travel would essentially be a subset of space/time travel throughout all possible universes... with VERY stringent criteria. (i.e. specific time, same universe if possible, that sort of thing.) I'm done... sorry about typing your eyes out ^^' ... but that's how I think 'time travel' may possibly work in real life. It ain't anywhere close to simple ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Actually, they could jump lanes... if you keep trying for many, many, many times the current age of the universe until it does ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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