burybuffynow Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Somehow, the attraction between the Doctor and Jade (aka, "Tree Woman" in episode #2) didn't bother me very much. I'm not sure if the writers are trying to put in a romance or if the Doctor is just teasing his Companions with all of these one-liners zinging around. But aren't we supposed to be really far down on the evolutionary scale to the Doctor? I haven't seen all of the older episodes, but the ninth Doctor even referred to Rose as "another *stupid* ape" in episode #8. He sees us as apes. Now, the 51st century guy is 3000 years in our future, but in evolutionary terms, he's still an ape too. So, these double entendres whizzing about strike me about the same way as if I'd seen a printed story about Michael Jackson "dancing" with his chimp. Oh wait, maybe I did see that in our press. We've seen everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burybuffynow Posted June 6, 2005 Author Share Posted June 6, 2005 I'll add two bits to this that are part of this. The eighth doctor in the Fox TV movie mentions that he's half human. It looks like Russell T picked that movie up as Canon. So, if the Doctor is half-human, one wonders what type of human and where in the evolutionary scale. The second bit has to do with the first Doctor. He was running around the universe with Susan, his granddaughter, and the two schoolteachers. Granted, the first doctor was more like a living history lesson than the sci-fi show we know today. But still, has that lineage ever been traced out? Who was Susan's mother? And, even more interesting, who was her grandmother? Is Susan more than half-human? I'd expect that the Doctor would have more flexible views about interspecies relations, but it still is hard to balance this against the notion that's been reinforced for years that we are pretty far down on the food chain compared to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegoonden Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Yeah but the half human thing was A. bullshit and B. written by a non bbc/bf employee and therefor not cannon.Unless Gallifrey never had the eye of harmony and it always lived in the TARDIS, making the Dr Rassilon. A half human mind in the Matrix? A non time senseitive as president? don;t think so. Either way....he is nearly 1000, she is 19....19 yrolds on gallifrey are still ni nappies....so if he touches Rose he's a filthy stinking kiddie fiddler. Anyway, the Doc's been celebate for centuries, and Presumably is still married too. And the TARDIS must be a safe place and the Dr a safe person, to intoriduce sexual threat will destroy the trust children place in the Doc. This romantic vibe is the wrongest thing in the new show and the only thing that constantly threatens to ruin it for me ( that and remaking "city on the edge of forever") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thraxman Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Right off, I'd say evolutionary scales have nothing to do with it. Rose is human, the Doctor is Galifreyian. So Rose is not farther down the evolutionary scale from the Doctor... they are on two completely different scales :) So "stupid ape" just refers to humans as being related to apes... a derogatory term. As far as the eighth Doctor/Fox movie... I've seen a lot of people say that it is accepted as canon. But I bet we never hear about that half-human bit again. We'll see, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is ignored. I could be very wrong on that, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegoonden Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 If the Fox movie was cannon, why was the Doc looking for alternate power for the TARDIS....aha! Actually one of my fave lines from the ne series is from the empty child.... Constantine:"before this war I was a father and a grandfather, now I'm niether, but I'm still a Doctor". The Doctor: "yeah, know the feeling" felt tears welling up at that I must confess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thraxman Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Yeah but the half human thing was A. bull#### and B. written by a non bbc/bf employee and therefor not cannon.Unless Gallifrey never had the eye of harmony and it always lived in the TARDIS, making the Dr Rassilon. I agree on point A. But Point B, well, maybe not written by a BBC employee, but the project was overseen by coproducers from the BBC and Universal, and was intended for broadcast on the BBC and Fox. About the Eye Of Harmony: It does not actually exist IN the TARDIS. The TARDIS is linked to it (as are all TARDISs). Remember, relative dimensions and all that. Don't think in linear 3D space :) Also, we really don't know if the Eye Of Harmony still exists. It may have been a casualty of the Time War, and the TARDIS may be running on reserves for all we know... thus the need to refuel. Geez, the TARDIS is complicated, ain't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quig69 Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Hey, this is the first time (besides the kissing 8th Doctor) that the Doctor has even looked at a woman. He has almost 1000 years to catch up on!!!! I hope when I am pushing 1000 years old that I can get a 19 year old!!! NICE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegoonden Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Sorry, I was too brief, I am in total agreement regarding the eye of harmony, it's just that the way the movie comes accross you'd THINK it really was in the TARDIS. It's my opinion that even the "real" EoH on Gallifrey is only just a portal to draw energy from Rassilon's pet black hole. I also reckon the Tardis was just topping up on "vitimins and mnierals" in the latest episode, and the Doc just didn't feel like discussing TL tech with Jack. It was wonderful to see her intervene BTW, can't remember her doing that on TV before ( other than ignoring the Doc obviously) That Movie has so much to answer for, not least giving a lot of lesser Whovians the impression that Mcgann wasn't all that good, which, based on the audio's is a real tragedy, he's excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roach Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Yeah but the half human thing was A. bull#### and B. written by a non bbc/bf employee and therefor not cannon.Unless Gallifrey never had the eye of harmony and it always lived in the TARDIS, making the Dr Rassilon. I agree on point A. But Point B, well, maybe not written by a BBC employee, but the project was overseen by coproducers from the BBC and Universal, and was intended for broadcast on the BBC and Fox. About the Eye Of Harmony: It does not actually exist IN the TARDIS. The TARDIS is linked to it (as are all TARDISs). Remember, relative dimensions and all that. Don't think in linear 3D space :) Also, we really don't know if the Eye Of Harmony still exists. It may have been a casualty of the Time War, and the TARDIS may be running on reserves for all we know... thus the need to refuel. Geez, the TARDIS is complicated, ain't it? It doesn't even have to be disconnected from the Eye and running on reserves. Take a slightly aged bog-standard car. It runs on gas (petrol for the Brits). However, if tzhat is all you ever give it, after a while it will still break down and die. You need oil, colling liquid, braking liquid, windshield wiper liquid, new spark plugs, tyres... We don't know what the technology requires to channel the power from the Eye of Harmony through a Tardis in order to make the latter move. Probably there is some need for mercury (pressure transfer? shielding?), as we find out early on in "The Daleks". There is some need for Zeiton-7 as we find out in "Vengeance on Varos". It could be that these are needed like lubrication oil and spark plugs, or something like it. This doesn't mean the Tardis isn't connected to the Eye of Harmony anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roach Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 It was wonderful to see her intervene BTW' date=' can't remember her doing that on TV before ( other than ignoring the Doc obviously)[/quote'] "Inside the Spaceship" -- also known as Serial C, the third one ever broadcast, with William Hartnell, just as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegoonden Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Cheers roach, not seen that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petra1989 Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 My problem was the qoute from a confidential about the Doctor being head over hills in love with Rose. I got the impression she was always flirting with him. The Doctor was just being nice. To me the relationship is like the Doctor and Ace, but with a crush thrown in. As for the Doctor kissing Dr. Grace. I loved that bit. HE was so excited that his kissed her. Like a celebration moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thraxman Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Yeah but the half human thing was A. bull#### and B. written by a non bbc/bf employee and therefor not cannon.Unless Gallifrey never had the eye of harmony and it always lived in the TARDIS, making the Dr Rassilon. I agree on point A. But Point B, well, maybe not written by a BBC employee, but the project was overseen by coproducers from the BBC and Universal, and was intended for broadcast on the BBC and Fox. About the Eye Of Harmony: It does not actually exist IN the TARDIS. The TARDIS is linked to it (as are all TARDISs). Remember, relative dimensions and all that. Don't think in linear 3D space :) Also, we really don't know if the Eye Of Harmony still exists. It may have been a casualty of the Time War, and the TARDIS may be running on reserves for all we know... thus the need to refuel. Geez, the TARDIS is complicated, ain't it? It doesn't even have to be disconnected from the Eye and running on reserves. Take a slightly aged bog-standard car. It runs on gas (petrol for the Brits). However, if tzhat is all you ever give it, after a while it will still break down and die. You need oil, colling liquid, braking liquid, windshield wiper liquid, new spark plugs, tyres... We don't know what the technology requires to channel the power from the Eye of Harmony through a Tardis in order to make the latter move. Probably there is some need for mercury (pressure transfer? shielding?), as we find out early on in "The Daleks". There is some need for Zeiton-7 as we find out in "Vengeance on Varos". It could be that these are needed like lubrication oil and spark plugs, or something like it. This doesn't mean the Tardis isn't connected to the Eye of Harmony anymore... Good analogies. And when I was just theorizing when I talked about the TARDIS not being linked to the EOH anymore... I consider it a possibility, even though my belief is that it couldn't operate too long without the EOH. We should compile a list of eps that contain handy tech info on the TARDIS, along with important points from each one. Could be something done in another thread over time, and then edited/compiled into a sticky... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenriswolf Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 I actually wish that RTD would tell us exactly what parts of Doctor Who he was keeping and what parts of the old series he was ignoring/letting go. It's like trying to put together a jigsaw puzzle of the TARDIS but missing several key pieces. But I have an idea, I'll post a TARDIS technologies thread anyways and sticky it. EDIT: http://tracker.thompson-web.org/forum/index.php?a=topic&t=3023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkboy Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 I actually wish that RTD would tell us exactly what parts of Doctor Who he was keeping and what parts of the old series he was ignoring/letting go. Yeah, who needs to be suprised by anything he's going to do! :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenriswolf Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Oh I like being surprised... I am referring more to the technology and elements of the old series, so we know for instance about the Eye of Harmony on the TARDIS and so forth. Does it still have the field that induces a state of grace where no violent action can take place aboard the ship. By the looks of Ep. 11 it can protect itself but what of Rose, could Margaret actually have killed her? So in my wish I desire to know these things, perhaps this and more will be revealed in further confidentials. Until then of course I am happy to speculate. Edit: regarding the actual romantic inclinations, I think that RTD is setting up the characters for a heart-wrenching finale to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Actually, the 'state of grace' field died by the middle of the 5th doctor's time (or some indeterminate time before...), as was evidenced in Earthshock when the Cybermen could shoot in the TARDIS ^^'... so yes, I think Margaret could have killed Rose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenriswolf Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 Yeah, I remembered Earthshock last night while I was doing a bit of writing. I also remember the whole Movie thing as well, where Grace whups the Doctor upside the head, now if the state of grace field were active that could never have happened etc. So yep, that thing is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamewinds Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 What on earth is wrong with romantic inclinations? I daresay if this was the first doctor, old enough to be my grandfather (wait, he was a grandfather!), i would barf ... but if I understand correctly, the doctor's personality and appearance changes with each regeneration. Our ninth Doctor is a man (such as it is) who is young at heart. Also, considering that he's the last of the timelords, perhaps he's lonely? The timelords aren't devoid of the softer emotions I presume, since they have/ had families too. Outside of the world of Doctor Who - in other words, from the point of view of a TV series beaming out to the public, you also need to consider the target audience. The series aims at roping in and satisfying the old diehards no doubt, but they are also aiming to build a new viewer base among those who are seeing the series for the first time. Which is the reason why the current doctor is such a young man ... and very much a personality and appearance which will appeal to today's generation. And today's generation like a little romance to spice up a good adventure. Right ... end of sermon :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenriswolf Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 I seem to remember RTD saying in an interview that he was aiming for a totally new audience while trying to please the old Doctor Who fans like me. In that respect he did it smack bang on 10/10! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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